As someone in the industry, then you know it only takes one small incident to spook the horse, so to speak. It's also one thing to throw a couple junk switchers on the ground, but when you are talking about someone's pride and joy... having an "incident" would be even worse PR than not touching it at all. Can you really blame them for their attitude in this day and age?

Not at all, and when emotions and business mix it gets even dicier, but I'd hesitate to project too much emotion for the corporate realm's behalf. Is it "our" collective fault for having something valuable made for transport, or is it the fault of the "industry" for not engaging customers with unique needs?

It's obvious we could very easily slip into the more philosophical realm here, but it's easier to say that stuff like this is the nature of the beast i.e. "it's railroading," pure and simple. And the challenges in modern or historic railroading are not going to get smaller.

Exactly. A unique one-time need. Apparently CSX decided it wasn't worth the hassle. Could they haul the 734? Of course. Did they want to? Apparently not. The railroad has engaged plenty of customers with unique needs - but they usually do it for a hefty price. I don't even know if there was going to be money exchanged for this trip, and it really isn't any of my business.

Anyone who has worked the industry has known or heard tales of transporting items that went bad, and the railroad ended up losing any profit that was to be made. And sometimes they even got PR hit. Or if not a PR hit, then hesitation from that customer for any further service.

And yes, they call this thing the railroad. Think in 50 years, any of this will be the topic of a book or museum display?

If it's worth anything, I think a lot of the foolishness and skittishness we are seeing in this incident may be generational in nature. I'm working on a post that will expand upon this theme--and interestingly, it has parallels that have been observed about support and opposition to other rail projects, including Amtrak, light rail, and high-speed rail, and even related things such as oil dependence, energy conservation, and alternative energy. (It may also be a horrendous inditement against what currently passes for political and business leadership.) I think this observation may be of use in our preservation movement--at least, I hope it can be.

Stay tuned. . .

There is an enormous "disconnect" both in technical understanding and in general communication between preservationists and modern professional railroaders.

Some of the equipment we want to move now predates the lifespan of most railroad middle management people. In some cases, and particularly in the case of steam, they may not have proper procedures or technical support in place to answer any questions they may have about it or to deal with unexpected problems. Fifty and sixty year old diesels tend to get less critical treatment than some other equipment because the trucks and other components are still familiar and in use today, recycled from generation to generation of locomotives.

People in the preservation community have warned of this pending problem in the past. Additional attention to the situation is indeed needed.

PC

Still got to work on that post I mentioned. . .in the meantime. . .

There is a story I was told about the 2100, just after it had been overhauled in the now-demolished roundhouse in Hagerstown, Md. The engine was being prepped for its trip out of Hagerstown, and a CSX employee was sent to examine the engine prior to shipment. Reportedly, he asked about where the traction motor was to move this thing (he was looking at the geared axle where the booster engine had been), and he was curious about this long "truck" that had spoked wheels almost as tall as he was. He couldn't get it through his head that this was an engine that didn't have traction motors and that its drivers were in a rigid frame.

When the engine was moved (under steam), the track foreman insisted that it be towed with the main rods taken down, because he "didn't want that engine to pound his track apart." Of course, a modern engine has overbalance to handle some nosing effects--which means when you take the main rods down, you throw it out of balance, and increase the dynamic augment from the counterweights. . .he wouldn't listen, either.

These clowns sound as bad as the lady I saw at the trolley museum in Washington, Pa., who pointed out to her little boy the hand brake in one car as a "steering wheel," and another female at Cass I heard about who was upset at the cinders from the Shays on that line. She buttonholed the park super there and exclaimed, "You've ruined my clothes! You've ruined my clothes! Your brochure says you run a steam train! It does not say you run a coal train!"

!@#$%&**!!!

This seems like a great opportunity to provide the "educational" function that non-profit operations state is a part of their mission, by teaching the local CSX inspector about steam locomotives.

PC

From what I've seen and read so far, the local people were OK with the steamer. They've been watching the thing pace their freight trains along the parallel trackage through the Narrows (river gorge west of Cumberland) for 10 years or more. The approach to the station from the service area at Ridgeley is visible from the west end of CSX's yard, too. Some (possibly retired) CSX employees are also train crew members on the WMSR, and at least one such member is also in an Osiris ("Shriner") lodge that has a park east of the town that features a 3-foot gauge tourist train with a Plymouth diesel for power. These do not sound like people who are uncomfortable around passenger equipment and steam.

The problem is in the senior management in Jacksonville.

Wasn't there a post here not too long ago about this? I recall it had to do with moving cars that had the older style of roller bearing without a rotating end cap, and that the person in Jacksonville couldn't get it through her head that this was a roller bearing, just because it didn't look like a current one.

Do you know for sure that the person in Jacksonville refused the move because of the roller bearing/friction bearing issue?

IF... the issue was friction bearings, then CSX should ground most, if not all of, their current diesel fleet. Don't all diesel-electrics have traction motor support bearings? And aren't they those pesky, prone-to-failure friction type?

In all discussion and news of this so far, I have not heard that CSX gave an explanation for their refusal. So if the reason was friction bearings, I would like to know the source and hear what they said.

(Edit: In reading back in this thread, I guess CSX did give reasons for their refusal.)

It didn't have to suck...

There was a verbal agreement to make the move - Lerro Productions (the charter) and Jason waited several weeks, if not longer before both announcing the event and printing the material. It wasn't simply a "cool thought" that went right to print.

The reasons are legit but if you want to justify the world in that respect, why have windows in trains? Why don't all buildings look the same? Why does CSX paint their trains after applying primer?

Plain and simple, CSX lost out on good publicity (in fact, got the opposite) and the town's businesses in and along the route lost out on a nice infusion of cash. CSX did not have to do this move and that should not have been the reason they did not.

Add to the fact that the move itself was not a good will gesture - it had a price tag.

/Mitch

Mitch, I so agree with your post and tried to convey a message similar to your's earlier. Thanks for saying it well.

I've seen the debate on every board I've visited... just how many prominent boards are there that 3 or 4 is not a large percent?



They may have chased the train but unless they used a transporter to get there, they had to buy gas, get a room, eat at a restaurant and likely would've bought some souveniers.

To put the CSX issue in perspective, however, you are right - it's just business and the verbal agreement did not carry any weight. Such a thought is to live in an America of the past, though it seems chasers were free to chase and UP was happy to risk running steam without diesels in the big city of Milliken, Colorado just the other day.

I deleted my original post, but the gist is quoted above.

So it's the talk of railfan boards.....and ? Those boards are the home of quite frequent class-1 bashing, no matter the paint color. And how many of those people are posting to multiple forums?

Railroads get plenty of bad press from derailments, closed crossings, whistle bans/no bans, slow trains, and everything else. Somehow I doubt not taking the 734 to Railfest is really going to hurt them where it counts (with customers and investors). These railroads are strictly businesses.