I was unsure of the whats and who’s in this statement, just wanted to go on record that any statements such as above would never have been made by me. Mechanical and operating practices are critical to safety and I’ll just throw my two cents in on the whole discussion. These being, do not let group think, trying to “get along” and politics get in the way of dealing with the hard work of actually doing things well and safely. If I felt that an institution is unable or unwilling to do this, that’s when I would walk away.

Best

Stathi

Efstathios I Pappas, MS
Stockton Locomotive Works
Soupac@aol.com
209 603 7363

quote="David Dewey"]Recently I met a young (20 or 30 something) man who has been around steam quite a while and apparently has operated some foreign steam locomotives. Since he was at the Chama steam event, I asked about the Pappas situation and the talk got around to "following the rules" and safety. Some of the things he stated about safety really worries me. The mention of bad stays in a row and other known calamities were met with "as long as you have water in it, it ain't gonna blow up" statement by him. Steam is NOT forgiving, and I worry when folks with not enough smarts become involved in operating it. I think of the admonition; "see tracks, think train" and there should be a corollary, "See Steam, think Safety!" What you don't know, or pay attention to, is what can kill you, and others. This should be drilled into newcomers to steam.
I was taught to trust, but verify; for instance when entering a cab, check the gauges and blow down the sight glass to verify it is functioning and there is water where it should be. Of course this implies that one knows what the gauges should be showing and how the glass should react.
SP used to stencil "Think Safety" on much of their equipment--good idea![/quote]

I am certainly sorry for the lack of clarity in my posting. The young man had told me that Staphi was too much a stickler for the rules, and the folks around Chama didn't appreciate it. So they let him go. I asked about it because he was there during the big steam up. I was telling him I was glad Staphi was "picky" about how things got done, and he was saying that it wasn't necessary, "if you keep water in them, they won't blow up" was his thinking." WRONG!! Besides the steam event, there is the Historic passenger train restoration, which is remarkable too.
While I'm posting, I am in awe of what Staphi did creating that amazing steam event; I wish I could have been there--I was there in spirit, if that counts. In my book Ya Done Good!

David, thank you for the kind words. I have always done my best to ensure the ethical and safe course is taken. In the end, that is all any of us can do. Take care and be well!

Best

Stathi

Always choose the safe course! Big steel things have no conscience and will smoosh you like a bug. Safety has to be the only priority. We can have fun with our avocation and do it safely. I've had co-workers die because people didn't follow basic safety procedures. I want everyone in our industry to have a safe and productive new year. Be safe and have fun!

Of course, the absolute "safest" course of all.............. is to never DO anything.

Don't put any fire in any boiler. Don't move a train. Don't board any train. Stay far, far away from any railroad track. Don't touch--it might be sharp, hot, slippery, etc.

And don't even go out in public. There's this wee beastie virus thingie going around, you know................

Not only are we being conditioned into avoiding personal responsibility, we are increasingly being taught that any risk whatsoever is unacceptable.

One thing that hasn't been said in this discussion yet is, IIRC, the engineer, who eventually died of his injuries in this incident, was the son of the owner, and was also the person responsible for maintenance and crew training.

I also recall reading, as justification for the FRA claiming jurisdiction over museum lines and tourist railroads except for very few that met the definition of being insular, that there was grave concern that the industry had evolved from a large workforce working for many employers that all adhered to basically the same standards to a small number of isolated operations that rarely traded employees. The feeling was in this new environment skills were being lost; if a management was unaware of a certain aspect of locomotive operation or maintenance it was unlikely that they would find an employee that knew more, and therefore many skills were in danger of being lost.

I can't say I disagree with that assessment of the situation at that time.

Even in the old days, home guards learned from the boomers who brought with them practices from everywhere else they had worked. I wonder if the Alliance could somehow encourage cross-pollenazation of this kind? Also, short term working visits to lines on other countries could provide a much broader context.

I can find no documentation corroborating this allegation of James Cornell's death from his injuries. Critically injured, yes. But let's not unnecessarily exaggerate what happened.

Sloan Cornell died at age 85 in 2010.

EDIT:
James Cornell died in 2004, apparently unrelated to injuries in the accident:
viewtopic.php?t=44567&start=30
https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/ev ... d=27300820

The need to exchange information and experience is what makes these and other forums so valuable, even if a lot of them degenerate into food fights.

In the old days, some boomer would have been passing through, would have seen a problem and would have said “Well, take this for what it’s worth because everyplace is different, but the Rock Ridge and Western had pretty good luck doing...” That system worked, sort of, at least hinting that there might be another way to work a problem. The obvious shortcoming was not knowing how accurate the information was without trying it, which had considerable drawbacks.

Now, we can exchange information and fight over it to our hearts’ content, in much greater numbers that should give us a better range of experience...but we have to actually DO it before the yelling starts. Any personality strong enough to handle being in charge of a steam locomotive is likely as iron-willed as the engine herself. We also have to deal with newcomers trusting “Uncle Herb who worked on the railroad” for restoration advice, when Uncle Herb wasn’t in engine service for the teenage summer he spent on the White Line and Furnace. Knowing who and when to trust and when to become alarmed at a deteriorating situation takes a lot of discernment.

I stand corrected. I knew the engineer was badly injured, and recall later hearing he passed away, and assumed they were related.

and don't forget...the FAA is required to inspect these warbirds to make sure the maintence is properly done. The inspector had not done this in months, so it was not just The Collings Foundation that is at fault.

I met with the engineer of No. 1278 on a number of occasions between the time of the incident and his passing away. I was involved in making the arrangements to move that locomotive, as well as No. 76, for the account the new owner of both. If the injuries he suffered were not to some extent the cause of his death, I would be surprised. I am not a doctor, but even two years after the incident, he had trouble breathing and bore visible scars from the scalding he suffered.

Yes, Jimmy was in bad shape and could barely talk on the phone after the incident. There might not be a direct and short line drawn between the two but I have to agree with Wayne on this one. I recently lost a relative to cardiac arrest as proximate cause when decades of MS and associated complications led to it. Systemic failures have many parents.