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New York Central 2976 https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10000	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Ted Miles [ Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:02 pm ]
Post subject:	New York Central 2976
As we know modern steam engines from the New York Central are quite rare, last night I was looking through my J. David Conrad books and noticed that there is a Consolidation locomotive in a park in Fairview, Oklahoma. She was built in 1910 by Alco/Brooks at Dunkirk, New York as a Kansa City subsidary and became New York Central 2976 in 1914. She was sold to the Sante Fe in 1928 and numbered 2522. Then retired to the park in 1954. Anybody have a picture of her they can post?Also, once again, Thank you David! Ted Miles ted_miles@nps.gov

Author:	R. Hahn [ Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New York Central 2976
Doug has a picture on his site, see link below. Roger > As we know modern steam engines from the New > York Central are quite rare, last night I > was looking through my J. David Conrad books > and noticed that there is a Consolidation > locomotive in a park in Fairview, Oklahoma. > She was built in 1910 by Alco/Brooks at > Dunkirk, New York as a Kansa City subsidary > and became New York Central 2976 in 1914. > She was sold to the Sante Fe in 1928 and > numbered 2522. Then retired to the park in > 1954. > Anybody have a picture of her they can > post?Also, once again, Thank you David! > Ted Miles Santa Fe 2522 belpaire@aol.com

Author:	Ed Kelley [ Tue Jun 15, 2004 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New York Central 2976
WOW! I did not know an ex-NYC Consolidation survived. The only ex-NYC engine in New York State is an 0-6-0 at Utica Station. There are two Mohawks, one at the National New York Central museum in Elkhart, Indiana (I always wondered why a New York Central museum is in Elkhart, Indiana...) and the other at the St. Louis Museum of Transportation. Apparently all four ex-NYC engines are rotting away from the pictures I've seen. The Mohawk in St. Louis as well as the S-2 electric #113 were last I heard stored outdoors and looked terrible. Sadly there isn't as great of a preservation effort in New York (all of the Hudsons and Niagaras were scrapped). I would love to see an S motor run specials in third-rail territory or better yet a Mohawk running a special up the Hudson Division from Harmon, but not going to happen. The Consolidation in Oklahoma looks like the ones that were frequently used on the Harlem and Putnam divisions since the mighty Hudsons did not run on those lines. Lots of things have changed too, in 1984 they extended the third rail through here and up to Brewster...when previously formerly electric motors uncoupled themselves and transferred their trains to steam (or later diesel). That practice is long dead since the FL9s migrated from the New Haven on to the Harlem and Hudson once Penn Central took control of the NH. -Ed Kelley GTNGRR@aol.com

Author:	Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Another NYC Consolidation in Maine PIC
> WOW! I did not know an ex-NYC Consolidation > survived. The only ex-NYC engine in New York > State is an 0-6-0 at Utica Station. There > are two Mohawks, one at the National New > York Central museum in Elkhart, Indiana (I > always wondered why a New York Central > museum is in Elkhart, Indiana...) *Same reason a Pennsy museum can be in Dennison, Ohio--it was a major division point and yard on the NYC. and the > other at the St. Louis Museum of > Transportation. Apparently all four ex-NYC > engines are rotting away from the pictures > I've seen. The Mohawk in St. Louis as well > as the S-2 electric #113 were last I heard > stored outdoors and looked terrible. You're forgetting (or haven't heard of) another NYC 2-8-0. NYC class G-43A 2-8-0 5780 (built as LS&MS 780 in 1901) is "lost in the woods" at Eagle Lake, Maine, to the northwest of Millinocket and Mt. Katahdin, Maine. I'll let the links and phopto below stir your curiosity; I'll let others tell you the long and strange tale of how and why. SteamLocomotive.info listing LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

Author:	Cliff McKay [ Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Another NYC Consolidation in Maine
The link below is to the website of a Land Rover group that visited the locos back in 2000. Some good historical background and neat photos. A couple of years back I stumbled across the site of a group that was going up several weekends each summer to stabilize the ground under the locos and do some minor cosmetic work, but I can't find it right now. It might be the link that's posted in the notes section for both locos, but it's not working at the moment. http://www.eastcoastrover.com/Trains2000.html mckay1995@comcast.net

Author:	Ted Miles [ Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New York Central 2976
Ed, Yours is just the kind of responce that I was hoping to get to my post. And just as I expected, 2976 is the typical Park locomotive in need of paint and missing a lot of parts. another candidate that needs to be moved to a proper museum. Regarding the engines out at Eagle Lake in Maine, they are something for archaeologists not preservations. Ted Miles ted_miles@nps.gov

Author:	Boyd Owens [ Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Another Loco in Maine PIC
On the website of the Land Rover group that visited the Eagle Lake locos in 2000, there is a photo (below) of a tank loco's remains they found. Anyone know the history of it? I can't seem to find any info on it. Boyd bowens@rypn.org

Author:	T. Harper [ Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Another NYC Consolidation in Maine
The group working on the locomotives is The Allagash Alliance Group. We are currently working on a new website. We did indeed finish the work which involved jacking the locomotives out of the mud and building a sound roadbed for them to rest on. It was a 5 year project that if contracted out would have cost upwards of $500,000 or more. We did it for $30,000. Today, they need to have the extensive corrosion addressed (they were burned in 1969)and we have a new stack for No.1 (the 4-6-0). We also brushed out part of the track extending towards the big cut and around the pulpcars. There is approximatly 2 miles of track still in place. It is quite a sight. Thanks for your interest. tchjjjj@aol.com

Author:	T.J. Gaffney [ Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Another NYC Consolidation in Maine
> There is approximatly 2 miles of track still > in place. It is quite a sight. Thanks for > your interest. How close is the nearest live trackage? Sounds like quite a few miles! Are they beyong any sort of comsetic resto at this point? TJG Port Huron Museum tjgaffney@phmuseum.org

Author:	Justin Franz [ Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Another NYC Consolidation in Maine
> How close is the nearest live trackage? > Sounds like quite a few miles! Are they > beyong any sort of comsetic resto at this > point? Sadly there's miles of woods and a lake that is in the way between them and live rail. When they where first moved there, way back when, they where draged across the ice to get to where they lie today. There was a article in Trains in the July 1991 issue about the them. -Justin Franz qcmrs18@yahoo.com

Author:	Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Another NYC Consolidation in Maine
> How close is the nearest live trackage? > Sounds like quite a few miles! Are they > beyong any sort of comsetic resto at this > point? Just for fun, I decided to use my computer's charting programs to answer this. Assuming the nearest active trackage is the Canadian Atlantic main line across Maine, it's about 55 miles for a helicopter; 132 miles via road to Dennistown (and then to Boston Pond or Mackamp) via St.-Camille and Liniere, Quebec........ Assuming you go east and the swamp roads can take the load, Masardis on the BAR is about 68 miles to the east..... assuming, of cource, that you start from the eastern shore of the lake. Oddly, one of my charting programs STILL shows a rail line stretched across the peninsula between Eagle Lake and Chamberlain Lake! LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

Author:	T. Harper [ Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Another NYC Consolidation in Maine
Your chart is correct. The two mile stretch from Tramway (where the locomotives are) to the trestle is still in place as well as some short fragments near Umbazooksus Lake. There are also the remains of 45 pulpcars as well. The Trestle burned many years ago. The nearest logging road is a 2 mile hike or, a 18 mile boat ride up Chamberlain Lake. As for moving them? Its a matter of opinion, but we felt, and the State concurred, that moving them would destroy thier historical integrity. They still rest exactly where they were last cooled down in 1933. What other locomotives can claim that? To remove them, as has been proposed many times, would take away the one very unique feature these locomotives have and that is thier location in the middle of the woods. They stand as a testimate to the technology and inovation and sheer will power that was expended to tap the vast tracts of forest surrounding the locomotives and to the fortitude of men such as Edouard LaCroix who did it. You will never capture the magnitude of this in a park or museum setting. You have to go there and stand where they are today to apprecate it. In short, leave them there. Leave them where they are for others to discover and ask the questions once again. It doesn't matter how many people have "discovered" them before. Whats important is its thier discovery and the subsequent firing of thier imagination and quest for knowlege that counts. To relocate them is to make them just another old locomotive in a park with there history etched briefly on a sign. Terence F. Harper tchjjjj@aol.com

Author:	T. Harper [ Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Another Loco in Maine
Boyd, The Tank engine-like boiler is from a steam Lombard Loghauler that was used on a previous operation that ran from 1908-1913 and abandoned. In fact, part of the frame, engine and skis are lying nearby. When the railroad was constructed in 1926-1927, the boiler was setup in a small building to provide steam to heat oil so it could be pumped. Because of the remote location (50 miles from the railhead at Lac Frontiere) LaCroix used gas powered Lombard Tractors to haul sleds fitted with oil tanks. Because this could only be done in the winter time, the oil had to be heated before it could be pumped from the tank sleds into the large storage tanks at Tramway. Thus the use of the Lombard boiler. They had to move approx. 250,000 Gal. of oil plus gasoline for the Plymouth Switchers this way every season. tchjjjj@aol.com

Author:	T. Harper [ Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:	A few EL&WB photos
Some photos VINTAGE EL&WB PHOTOS tchjjjj@aol.com

Author:	Boyd Owens [ Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Another Loco in Maine
Thanks. Very interesting. I wonder if anyone has considered making it part of some type of display about the logging operations there... Boyd bowens@rypn.org

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