Re: this Flimsies piece: Does any of the original track remain buried beneath the ashpalt? Would any of it be usable if it were?

http://www.nbc4.tv/news/3411742/detail.html
ryarger@rypn.org

The group's Web Site (link below).

> Re: this Flimsies piece: Does any of the
> original track remain buried beneath the
> ashpalt? Would any of it be usable if it
> were?


The Angeleno Heights Trolley Line, Inc.
jgerlach@trainsofthought.com

Nice website. Sounds like they are pretty well organized out there, though they have a long way to go. Can anyone make comments on the usability of the buried track? How about conflicts with the bezillion automobiles that now seem to populate every street everywhere?

ryarger@rypn.org

>Bob: I don't see how buried trackage could be salvaged for reuse given the cost,safety and enviormental issues involved, perhaps it would be more advantages to tear out the old and replace with the new, any project of ths magnitude is dependent upon the good graces from city hall and city supervisors and the dedicated volunteers. Once upon a time the PE trackage in Alamada Street in downtown LA was a example of adaptative reuse for freight operations, now most it is removed or paved over.

Nice website. Sounds like they are pretty
> well organized out there, though they have a
> long way to go. Can anyone make comments on
> the usability of the buried track? How about
> conflicts with the bezillion automobiles
> that now seem to populate every street
> everywhere?

Much of the McKinney Ave line in Dallas was cleaned up after pavement was removed from the street and reused. I personally inspected track buried under Central Ave in Charlotte from 1939 through 1989 when it was dug out and the ties were like new. Don't know what about LA would contribute to greater difficulty than either case, apart from politics.

dave


irondave@bellsouth.net

From time-to-time the Baltimore Streetcar Museum has salvaged buried track for re-use at the museum. Both of their loops, the 28th street loop and the museum station loop, were salvaged from streetcar loops that were buried under asphalt for many years. -- Ray

> Nice website. Sounds like they are pretty
> well organized out there, though they have a
> long way to go. Can anyone make comments on
> the usability of the buried track? How about
> conflicts with the bezillion automobiles
> that now seem to populate every street
> everywhere?


raymondreter@aol.com

> From time-to-time the Baltimore Streetcar
> Museum has salvaged buried track for re-use
> at the museum. Both of their loops, the 28th
> street loop and the museum station loop,
> were salvaged from streetcar loops that were
> buried under asphalt for many years. -- Ray

Nobody has mentioned it thus far, but Los Angeles Railway's track gauge was 3 ft. 6 in., not standard gauge. Might make it difficult to find rolling stock for a proposed revival using existing buried trackage.

aeriola@adelphia.net

In 1995, SEPTA in Philly restored three blocks of track to service on 58th Street from Woodland to Chester that had been abandonded and paved over since 1957. This was done as part of a bridge replacement on SEPTA's route 13 streetcar line. It also provides additional operating flexibility for SEPTA's streetcar lines in southwest Philly.

This was mainly possible because the track was practically new when the route 46 was converted to bus and the track paved over. A lot of the buried track is junk.

Even with the buried track being decent, it was still quite an undertaking. The street had to be milled down extensively so that the grade of the street could be restored to the grade of the rails. The track did have to be repaired in places. The entire street was repaved and sidewalk repairs were made. Line poles had to be reinstalled and overhead contructed. The track is diversion track only and is not normally used as part of a route so the current track should last a long time.

Matthew Mummert

mlmummert@suscom.net

I agree, the Web site is attractive, and they've obviously put some work into it. I had to hunt to find it, though.

What doesn't make sense to me is their proposed routing. Only the odd interior cul-de-sac on the larger loop is on existing ex-LARY (narrow gauge) tracks, outside of, perhaps remnant on the downtown loop. If tracks remain on Sunset Blvd. (Cesar Chavez), they would be the PE's standard gauge Hollywood line. (See link below)

And, of course, choosing to "go narrow" would make this a stand-alone proposition (MTA-rail-wise), plus limit their equipment options, as well. I'd suggest making a better connection with the Union Station transit hub, too.

But, I'm sure these issues will all be resolved over time, if the project actually moves forward.

Three cheers for the initiative!

One way to address the diminishing resources available to the railway preservation movement is to develop a genuine "public transit" utility for preserved (or restored) rail operations.

> Nice website. Sounds like they are pretty
> well organized out there, though they have a
> long way to go. Can anyone make comments on
> the usability of the buried track? How about
> conflicts with the bezillion automobiles
> that now seem to populate every street
> everywhere?


Tom Wetzel's Los Angeles Railway In Brief
jgerlach@trainsofthought.com

That's right the LA Railway was 42" gauge, but most of the Pacific electric was standard gauge.

the new San Pedro "Red Cars" are using some of the
old PE tracks. but I do not know of they replaced the rails and ties.

The "Red Cars" have a huge web site that is well worth a look.

Ted Miles


ted_miles@nps.gov

> From time-to-time the Baltimore Streetcar
> Museum has salvaged buried track for re-use
> at the museum. Both of their loops, the 28th
> street loop and the museum station loop,
> were salvaged from streetcar loops that were
> buried under asphalt for many years.

*True enough. And the BSM still remains "on call" to salvage anything from the streets deemed salvage-worthy during construction. It has a substantial stockpile built up over the years.

However, the curator and operating heads of the BSM have told me that it is increasingly difficult to find buried rail that is worthy of salvage. The rail in question is often increasingly brittle, and shatters upon removal. One must remember that, at a minimum, this rail has been paved over for approximately 40 years, and in some cases decades longer. Given the choice between prying out century-old rail that's been buried for 50 years and pounded by traffic through asphalt all that time, or relaying freshly-donated ties and fifteen-year-old heavy rail from a closing railroad rolling stock production facility a few more miles away, what do you think they'll take?


LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net