Was wondering if anyone has been to Horseshoe Curve lately and could report on the state of the brush/tree trimming.
I visited last year and thought it was a great train watching spot but unfortunatly most of the views of the curve were partially or totally blocked by trees/brush to the extent that most of ones experience of a passing train was hearing vs. seeing.

I was told that they were going to correct this unfortunate situation and before I go again would appreciate an update from someone whose been there lately.

Thanks, Ross Rowland

rrowland@weidel.com

This came in to my mailbox today from the PRRT&HS, which includes a PARTIAL answer:

Scott G. Cessna, Executive Director of the Railroaders Memorial Museum and Horseshoe Curve National Historic Landmark writes – “Even though it has been covered in Trains Magazine, a full-page ad in Railpace for 2 months, the internet, the Associated Press wire service, the AARP radio network and associated other local media outlets, here is an update on the Curve lighting.

"This time the event will last for much more than the 1/15th of a second that the 1954 experience lasted. As a half-mile long train approaches an otherwise darkened Curve the beams from 45: 7,000 watt searchlights, some riding in TTX cars and some based on the ground at the visitor center, will pierce straight up into the nighttime sky. The surrounding hillside will begin to systematically illuminate as the locomotive begins to trace the arc of the Curve. Section by section the entire landscape will be revealed in a kinetic and dynamic show of lighting power turning the hillsides red, white and blue. The interior of each railcar will be illuminated by Sylvania HPL Ultra Plus Halogen lamps. Additionally a string of 100 theatrically programmed strobe lights will suggest a 2,500 foot long shimmering necklace of light.

"The synchronization of this event is a giant challenge of perfect timing and must be delicately choreographed as to appear effortless in its motion but will actually be the result of a team of well-rehearsed people working very hard to make every detail perfect.

"The dayÂ’s agenda is a full one. Both the Museum and Curve will be open for business as usual. There is entertainment scheduled for the Museum yard all day including a visit from the Sylvania sponsored #29 GM Goodwrench NASCAR entry of Kevin Harvick. Upon the Curve and Museum closing, bus transportation to the Curve will begin. The Curve will be filled with food and entertainment all evening as well. After remarks from dignitaries, it will be time for the show. Our train-mounted computerized light show will be ushered into the Curve by the live sounds of AltoonaÂ’s own Paul Winter and we are thrilled to have Paul available to be with us for this occasion. Over 33 million lumens of light will fill the property. With your average hardware store flashlight pumping out a whopping 30 to 50 lumens, gather 750,000 of your closest friends and lets see if we can begin to approach the spectacle that will take place July 4.

"And thatÂ’s not all!! Our friends at Sylvania Lighting Services have been busy retrofitting the landscape and buildings at the Horseshoe Curve Visitor Center complex. New technology will adorn the facility there making it more enjoyable not only on July 4th but for years to come as Sylvania is graciously leaving all of those improvements behind permanently.

"Then to cap the evening, a fireworks show from Zambelli Fireworks Internationale. They have certainly earned their reputation as the First Family of Fireworks. A proud Pennsylvania company that has lit the sky over the White House for President Kennedy, illuminated Mount Rushmore, and have been featured at celebrations for the Statue of Liberty and Washington Monument, they will fill the sky over Kittanning point reservoir with the most spectacular show to ever be seen in this area.

"Many have said that because of the trees, the people at the Visitor Center level will not see anything. That could not be farther from the truth. This is not about being able to see the train. There is not that much to see. The 7000 watt searchlights are the same type of lights used at the World Trade Center memorial and will be pointed straight up. The hillsides surrounding the Curve will be lit and certainly the fireworks can be seen from anywhere. Also, If you haven't been to the Curve in a while then you would know that the statement about trees not being cut is untrue. The bank on the east side has been clear-cut from the visitor center to the signal bridge and more of the trees on our property (the big pines) are coming down.

"I would also remind you that if you are planning to ride or hike in to avoid buying an admission, please do it without trespassing. Otherwise, you may be meeting railroad, local, state and FEDERAL law enforcement agents as an extensive list of VIPs have been invited. All are equipped with night vision gear. Also, as I walked the access road between track 1 and 2 today, the rattlers and copperheads in the area are quite heavy already. Just a reminder/warning.

"I hope everyone will consider joining us at this once in a lifetime event."

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

.Thanks for posting Cessnas infomercial which you're right partially answers(and partially doesn't) my question.
It sounds like it will be a spectacular few moments when all the lumens "loom" and I'm confident that someone will get a good video of it from the air so that all who wish to can purchase a copy for home consumption. My personal impression from having been there coupled with Cessna's description of the game plan is that it will be much akin to a hockey game, better viewed on TV-replay than in person, but I'm sure it will be spectacular to witness if you're a "lumen-loon".
All this still does not answer my central question which is have they cut/trimmed the trees/brush both east&west of the visitors area to open the track view?? It would be much appreciated if someone whose been there recently could report.

Many thanks, Ross Rowland
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rrowland@weidel.com

A group of PRRTHS folks are joining me on the 120 and WR next weekend for a jaunt to the former Steel City. We will post a first hand report from trackside!

Bennett

v-scarpitti@att.net

It wasn't a partial answer. I answered your question completely and accurately. The entire east side has been cleared sans a couple troublesome trees on our proerty as oppsed to railroad property which we are still working on. The west side has not been touched since the wondows were cut near the greaser 2 years ago.

Everyone should remember something about the trees at the Curve. The offending foliage is NOT ON MY PROPERTY therefore I can only do what NS has given me the OK to do. In the case of the east side, this was done not by Museum personnel and not with the blessing of the railroad - but it is a great improvement. In defense of NS, it is less about cutting trees and more about the fear of volunteers getting hurt on railroad property and finding an ambulance chasing attorney to sue the railroad.

Scott Cessna

> .Thanks for posting Cessnas infomercial
> which you're right partially answers(and
> partially doesn't) my question.
> It sounds like it will be a spectacular few
> moments when all the lumens "loom"
> and I'm confident that someone will get a
> good video of it from the air so that all
> who wish to can purchase a copy for home
> consumption. My personal impression from
> having been there coupled with Cessna's
> description of the game plan is that it will
> be much akin to a hockey game, better viewed
> on TV-replay than in person, but I'm sure it
> will be spectacular to witness if you're a
> "lumen-loon".
> All this still does not answer my central
> question which is have they cut/trimmed the
> trees/brush both east&west of the
> visitors area to open the track view?? It
> would be much appreciated if someone whose
> been there recently could report.

> Many thanks, Ross Rowland
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director@railroadcity.com

By the way, your categorization of the event being better viewed at home on video is simply garbage. This was never billed as an event centered around taking pictures of NS motive power or rolling stock. It is what it is - an event to commemorate the 150th Anniversary of the Curve and teh 50th Anniversary opf the Sylvania Big Shot photograph.

Scott Cessna

> .Thanks for posting Cessnas infomercial
> which you're right partially answers(and
> partially doesn't) my question.
> It sounds like it will be a spectacular few
> moments when all the lumens "loom"
> and I'm confident that someone will get a
> good video of it from the air so that all
> who wish to can purchase a copy for home
> consumption. My personal impression from
> having been there coupled with Cessna's
> description of the game plan is that it will
> be much akin to a hockey game, better viewed
> on TV-replay than in person, but I'm sure it
> will be spectacular to witness if you're a
> "lumen-loon".
> All this still does not answer my central
> question which is have they cut/trimmed the
> trees/brush both east&west of the
> visitors area to open the track view?? It
> would be much appreciated if someone whose
> been there recently could report.

> Many thanks, Ross Rowland
> .
> .

> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> ..
> ..
> ..
> .
> ..


director@railroadcity.com

> By the way, your categorization of the event
> being better viewed at home on video is
> simply garbage. This was never billed as an
> event centered around taking pictures of NS
> motive power or rolling stock. It is what it
> is - an event to commemorate the 150th
> Anniversary of the Curve and teh 50th
> Anniversary opf the Sylvania Big Shot
> photograph.

> Scott Cessna

Hi Folks,

My last visit to HC was on Thursday, June 10, 2004. That was my first visit in quite a few years - perhaps 18 or so. At the time of the earlier visit, one could see trains from slightly east of Kittaning Point, to the west, around the curve and up the mountain to where the tracks began to curve to the right.

On the June 10 visit, I am sorry to report, one could see the trains for, perhaps, only 30% of that distance. This constriction of the view was dramatic and disappointing. It's still HC; it's still perhaps the most historic spot on the old PRR but I devoutly wish the trees and brush had been kept down.

Cordially,

Jack Mowbray


motorman011@yahoo.com

The direct question was: have the trees been trimmed so one can see trains around the Curve (assuming he means from the publicly-accessible areas)? The answers we are getting are mixed: you say you've taken care of what trees you can; the fans are reporting limited visibility.

I, for one, distinctly remember a report several moons ago of a sum of money being allocated to pay to Norfolk Southern specifically for NS to trim trees on their property to improve the view at the Curve. I read reports on this story at several places, including possibly here on this forum. Is this story false? Is there a reason NS has stalled? Was the trimming done, but inadequately?

Having trimmed trees for the Carl Franz photo crews, I am well aware that there's only one way those particular trees are getting trimmed--a Kershaw Tree Topper boom truck. But this isn't an issue of "it can't be done"--this is an issue of "why is it not being done?"

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

Thank you Mr.Mowbray for your succint report on the current overgrown conditions at historic Horseshoe Curve. Your description matches my experience from last summer and I too wondered how much better it would have been if one could see the train for 100% of the distance one could hear it vs. 30% or so.

I'd agree with the other poster(s) who have stated that it's a matter of getting it done rather then is it doable! I would emplore the current management to get on the ball and give this thier highest priority as it is a very important piece of the visitor product that has been allowed to languish FAR too long!!

If $$$ is the issue,then let the fan community know and we'll mount a fund raising campaign directed specifically towards "Clearing Horseshoe". If it's not about $$$ then get on with it!! From my observation last summer(coupled with some fairly extensive tree work on my farm)I'd guess a proffesional tree crew could have the whole thing done,cleaned up and gone in 1.5 working days. Yes, it would need to be coordinated with NS, and yes done proffesionally to satisfy the tree huggers etc., but emminently doable!
It's obviously not going to get done in time for the "lumen-in" but let's hope it will get done sooner then later for us that want to go there to SEE trains!

I'll look forward to reading Mr. Levins report next week as he passes over the Curve aboard the 120.

Ross Rowland> Hi Folks,

> My last visit to HC was on Thursday, June
> 10, 2004. That was my first visit in quite a
> few years - perhaps 18 or so. At the time of
> the earlier visit, one could see trains from
> slightly east of Kittaning Point, to the
> west, around the curve and up the mountain
> to where the tracks began to curve to the
> right.

> On the June 10 visit, I am sorry to report,
> one could see the trains for, perhaps, only
> 30% of that distance. This constriction of
> the view was dramatic and disappointing.
> It's still HC; it's still perhaps the most
> historic spot on the old PRR but I devoutly
> wish the trees and brush had been kept down.

> Cordially,

> Jack Mowbray


rrowland@weidel.com