Caboose 28, along with twin 27, was built by the EBT in 1920 in the Rockhill shops. They are hybrid cars with steel frames but wood floors, walls and roofs. These two cabooses, along with the late caboose 26 and combines 14 and 15, served as the fleet of tail-end cars on the EBT.

After the start of tourist operations, both cabooses were soon returned to service to haul passengers, and have done so for the past four decades. Although 28 received green paint and plush seat covers to fit in with the tourist train, it remains in its common carrier configuration.

During the operating season the cabooses, particularly #28, are stored outdoors. Over the years the Pennsylvania weather has taken it toll on the car and the siding was in a very bad state. The siding was literally falling apart. The railroad asked FEBT late last year if there was anything they could do with the car before the 2004 season.

In response, FEBT instituted special Winter work sessions for the caboose with a limited crew experienced restoration workers. The car was spotted in the Car Shop rather than the storage barn and during the January and February sessions the siding and platforms of the cars were stripped down. The wall structures were found to be in good shape but the platform decks were badly corroded. With this discovery, the group had to grind off dozens of rivets to remove the remains of the old steel deck. New steel was acquired and formed as needed.

This week's Restoration Pic of the Week features the work to get those sheets ready for installation. This work proceeded during the special February session and the regular March session. The work includes cutting the sheets to size, grinding down the edges and drilling dozens and dozens of holes to reattach equipment. Before the next work session the platform decks will be welded into place as needed and then installation of the siding, wood deck, window frames, ladders, grab irons and the like can proceed. But that is a subject for another Pic of the Week.

There is something really neat about rebuilding the car in the very building in which it was constructed 84 years ago.

More photos of work on the caboose can be found at these URLs:
http://www.febt.org/Restore/RF/0403.html
http://bsulliva.oozy.ws/rr/ebt/photos/0 ... index.html
--
The Rockhill Restoration Crew works to restore the structures and facilities of the East Broad Top Railroad National Historic Landmark in Rockhill Furnace, Pennsylvania. Won't you consider joining us? No matter your skill level there are tasks you can perform to help us make a difference. Find out how to join at:

http://www.febt.org/Restore/

The Rockhill Restoration Crew schedule for 2004 is as follows:

March 13-14
May 1-2
May 22-23
June 12-13
July 10-11
August 1-2
August 14-15 (Community Appreciation Weekend)
August 28-29
September 25-26
November 6-7

Chris Coleman, FEBT Webmaster
http://www.febt.org

Friends of the East Broad Top

webmaster@febt.org

Can't resist, your picture shows a major safety violation. An O2 bottle must either be secured to a rack of some sort so the bottle can't fall or have the shipping cap on and laying on it side.

Ed


ff1044@aol.com

Please don't take this posting the wrong way, folks, but I must pose the question--can volunteers with no training in conservation or experience in historic preservation be entrusted with "restoring" historic fabric? I commend the FEBT for their efforts to save and stabilize what is fleeting history. But I also to cringe to think of people (armed with good intentions, mind you) ripping apart and discarding historic "in service" fabric, materials and historic surfaces of artifacts (such as the EBT)just to stabilize them from the elements and make them "brand new". I'm not so sure they have the training or experience to be making decisions on what to discard or what to preserve. If they have any historic preservation professionals advising them, I'd feel a little better about this project. It seems the finest historic pieces that are in danger of being lost forever are often entrusted by folks with the least experience or expertise in knowing how to care for them. But I do admire them for trying to save what is left; I just hope FEBT is not inadvertently discarding any irreplaceable materials or artifacts in an effort to save it. That may be doing more harm than good; and it can happen by accident if you don't understand the consequences of your actions, good or bad. It's like the old Washington's axe argument: once the handle has been renewed several times, and the blade has been changed out twice, is it still Washington's axe? Or, in this case, if the EBT's shops have been rebuilt with new wood twice in the last fifteen years, is that part of the shops still considered a historic structure?

> Caboose 28, along with twin 27, was built by
> the EBT in 1920 in the Rockhill shops. They
> are hybrid cars with steel frames but wood
> floors, walls and roofs. These two cabooses,
> along with the late caboose 26 and combines
> 14 and 15, served as the fleet of tail-end
> cars on the EBT.

> After the start of tourist operations, both
> cabooses were soon returned to service to
> haul passengers, and have done so for the
> past four decades. Although 28 received
> green paint and plush seat covers to fit in
> with the tourist train, it remains in its
> common carrier configuration.

> During the operating season the cabooses,
> particularly #28, are stored outdoors. Over
> the years the Pennsylvania weather has taken
> it toll on the car and the siding was in a
> very bad state. The siding was literally
> falling apart. The railroad asked FEBT late
> last year if there was anything they could
> do with the car before the 2004 season.

> In response, FEBT instituted special Winter
> work sessions for the caboose with a limited
> crew experienced restoration workers. The
> car was spotted in the Car Shop rather than
> the storage barn and during the January and
> February sessions the siding and platforms
> of the cars were stripped down. The wall
> structures were found to be in good shape
> but the platform decks were badly corroded.
> With this discovery, the group had to grind
> off dozens of rivets to remove the remains
> of the old steel deck. New steel was
> acquired and formed as needed.

> This week's Restoration Pic of the Week
> features the work to get those sheets ready
> for installation. This work proceeded during
> the special February session and the regular
> March session. The work includes cutting the
> sheets to size, grinding down the edges and
> drilling dozens and dozens of holes to
> reattach equipment. Before the next work
> session the platform decks will be welded
> into place as needed and then installation
> of the siding, wood deck, window frames,
> ladders, grab irons and the like can
> proceed. But that is a subject for another
> Pic of the Week.

> There is something really neat about
> rebuilding the car in the very building in
> which it was constructed 84 years ago.

> More photos of work on the caboose can be
> found at these URLs:
> http://www.febt.org/Restore/RF/0403.html
>
> http://bsulliva.oozy.ws/rr/ebt/photos/0 ... index.html
> --
> The Rockhill Restoration Crew works to
> restore the structures and facilities of the
> East Broad Top Railroad National Historic
> Landmark in Rockhill Furnace, Pennsylvania.
> Won't you consider joining us? No matter
> your skill level there are tasks you can
> perform to help us make a difference. Find
> out how to join at:

> http://www.febt.org/Restore/

> The Rockhill Restoration Crew schedule for
> 2004 is as follows:

> March 13-14
> May 1-2
> May 22-23
> June 12-13
> July 10-11
> August 1-2
> August 14-15 (Community Appreciation
> Weekend)
> August 28-29
> September 25-26
> November 6-7

> Chris Coleman, FEBT Webmaster
> http://www.febt.org

>Or, in this case, if the
> EBT's shops have been rebuilt with new wood
> twice in the last fifteen years, is that
> part of the shops still considered a
> historic structure?

Larry, I recommend that you take a look at the Interchange archives, we've had this discussion over and over again.

To FEBT's credit, and as an additonal argument, had they not done the work, then there probably would be no EBT shops in about 10 years due to the state of deterioration that they were/are in.

Also, sicne the cars are usually stored outside, they are subject to the conditions of the weather. Again, letting the "historic fabric" be, wou.d result in a polie of mushy wood in a few years. The owners of the EBT and FEBT have chosen to carefully restore, or at the very least stabalize the shops and other infrastructure of the EBT. More importantly, although I'd have to check with a real restoration professional on this, I don't think they are destroying much important historic fabric. I mean, they aren't buring the place down, or converting the car into something it wasn't. They are replacing the siding and rotten platforms of a caboose.



david.wilkins@bardstown.com

More importantly, although I'd
> have to check with a real restoration
> professional on this, I don't think they are
> destroying much important historic fabric. I
> mean, they aren't buring the place down, or
> converting the car into something it wasn't.
> They are replacing the siding and rotten
> platforms of a caboose.

Moreover, since for all practical purposes 1) the repair of the equipment are being authorized (and probably paid for in part by) the ongoing management of the EBT; and 2)the EBT is basically a continuing for-profit operation and not actually a preservation project (I know, I know, the lines are fuzzy)........

....... the repairs being made still qualify as authentic in-service repairs, and not a "preservation" effort, and are therefore their own "historic fabric".

Just think about it.


LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

> can volunteers with no training in
> conservation or experience in historic
> preservation be entrusted with
> "restoring" historic fabric?

Yes, they can.

"Restoration, the third treatment, focuses on the retention of materials from the most significant time in a property's history, while permitting the removal of materials from other periods."

Restoration is not rocket science. The guidelines are relatively simple. In this case:

"6. Deteriorated features from the restoration period will be repaired rather than replaced. Where the severity of deterioration requires replacement of a distinctive feature, the new feature will match the old in design, color, texture, and, where possible, materials."

The siding of the car and the decking on the platforms was damaged beyond repair. Sections were removed for study. Reproduction siding was ordered that matched the original in all dimensions and was of a material historically used in passenger car siding. All features that were removed from the car were photographically documented before being removed and labeled for proper reassembly. The siding containing the herald and other letters was retained intact for future reference and study. Any and all parts that were not damaged or were repairable will be replaced on the car in their original locations and orientations. Portions of the car which are undamaged, such as the interior, are being left intact.

Beyond that, I must point out that the EBT is not a museum or a conservatory. It is all about living history. It is about cabooses rolling down the rail not setting under a glass case. This does not dismiss us from the obligation to be mindful of the historic relevance of every part of the railroad, yet it also demands that we address the restoration as a functional one. The caboose is still a service car for the railroad, the same railroad that built it, the same railroad that approves the work we do to it today. The work we perform is part of the continued life cycle of the piece and we strive to return each piece to the state we belive the EBT would have brought it to in 1955.

Virtually all the volunteers are students of the railroad's history and technology. We comb over historic photos to get the coloration right or determine the original roofing material. We mix mortar of the same formula as that already in the wall. We painstakingly cope and sand muntin bars to match the profile of the original.

For my own part I am heavily involved in the restoration of the Windows in the Shops. I have combed through the dirt floor of the Car Shop to find the last bits of a collapsed window sash. I use every piece of wood I can repair and make every replacement piece a duplicate of the original (which I retain for future pattern work). We even save undamaged but dislodged panes of glass for reinstallation. Still, there are real word limitations to this approach. At the end of the day the windows have to keep the elements out or the buildings will be lost. At the end of the day the cars have to be on the rails safely hauling paying passengers or the railroad will be lost. The price of living history is that history must pull its weight even if some fabric must be lost.

The history of the EBT in the recent decades has been that of much analysis and limited action. The railroad has been held together this long by the EBT's employees, management, and the Rockhill Trolley Museum rolling up their sleeves and doing what needed done. Now FEBT joins them. The situation has reached the point where either something is done or nothing will be done. Funds are limited, but the volunteers are willing to do what it takes and do it right, both historically and operationally. That is what counts.

ebtrr@spikesys.com

Excursions are a huge part of Steamtown and it shows what Railroading in the 40's and 50's was all about, but it is only one part of the big picture at Steamtown. What Steamtown dose have, that is unique and a important tool of telling the Steam Railroading Story is a steam era roundhouse and yard.

-Justin Franz

qcmrs18@yahoo.com

Bill and Sue Knous operate a consignment/auction site at the link below. They have posted results of past auctions and there are frequently builders plates in those auctions. They have also published a book on Railroadiana prices.

sc 'doc' lewis


Railroad Memories
utweyesguy@aol.com

> This points out why you shouldn't have
> privately owned rail vehicles in your museum
> collection. Many horror tales abound in the
> industry about the owner who shows up and
> says "I'm gonna take all my marbles and
> go home."

I have to voice my disagreement with this. SCRM has a lot of privately-owned equipment on site; there are a few elements of the agreements we have that I think could be done better, but overall our system works. A blanket policy against private equipment isn't really necessary if you address a few issues head-on.

With half a dozen privately-owned cars on the property, we've only ever had the above threat made by one owner. This individual owns one of the four CN cars -- the other three are Museum-owned. Our response was simply, "Fine, take it out of service. We've got three others just like it, so we don't need yours. By the way, if we can't use it any more, your rent will be X or you'll have to move it off the property within 30 days."

The car is still in service.

As long as you're not relying on privately-owned equipment exclusively, I really don't see a problem with it. Just make sure you have written agreements in place with the owner that either incurs a penalty if X isn't done or allows the organization to take posession. A verbal agreement, as the saying goes, isn't worth the paper it's written on.

The South Carolina Railroad Museum
mconrad@msmgmt.com

Have you written....

Better yet, have you volunteered?

> Have you written....

> Better yet, have you volunteered?
Still waiting for an answer on this one. How has Electric City, which I believe is also government funded, accomplished so much in just a couple years while Steamtown swirls in controversy?

bas1210@comcast.net

> Still waiting for an answer on this one. How
> has Electric City, which I believe is also
> government funded, accomplished so much in
> just a couple years while Steamtown swirls
> in controversy?

Steve:

I am unfamiliar with Electric City, have never worked with their staff, have not been to their faclities, and have not participated in any of their programs. Accordingly, I am unable to opine based on personal knowledge.

Art

> Gentlemen, It is important to keep in mind that the NPS is a Federal Bureauacracy and as such all of its employees are by definition Federal Employees. To survive and reach the universally sought goal of a pension ALL Federal employees learn early on that rule#1 is DON'T make any waves,DON'T piss off your boss, and most importantly NEVER get your name connected to anything controversial especially if it gets into the public media! Put another way, whatever you do, DON'T take any risks!!

Now, to even begin to make use of the assets that S'Town has(a beautiful physical plant-thanks to about $80 million taxpayer dollars, an above average railroad ride, decent scenery etc., etc.)to drive visitorship to where it could/should be involves taking some calculated risks such as photo-run-bys, letting folks walk through the train,allowing customers to visit the cab of the live engine, planning your steam trips properly so they are STEAM trips-not mostly diesel trips with a touch of steam etc. etc..

The fundamental problem is that the staff at Scranton gets paid the same amount whether there's 400,000 visitors(which there should be if it were run correctly) or 90,000 visitors(which will probably be this years #. And further if things continue to decline and the NPS decides to close the place all the staff knows they'll just get transfered to another NPS facility. In other words the powerfull self interest forces that drive a private sector enterprise to be the best it can be (survival) are not present here.

Thus, the ONLY chance that S'town ever has of blossoming is if the NPS decides to cut its losses and lease it into the private sector to a qualified operator who knows the family entertainment business and will operate/promote/manage it in a customer freindly manner and get the visitorship headed upwards instead of in continual decline.

Unfortunatley this could take years to happen the way the Federal Gov't. works and in the interim we're much better off to support good programs like the Ohio Centrals that are properly managed/operated.

I hope to see many of you at Trainfestival2004!

Ross Rowland
>
>

rrowland@weidel.com

> Gentlemen, It is important to keep in mind that the NPS is a Federal Bureauacracy and as such all of its employees are by definition Federal Employees. To survive and reach the universally sought goal of a pension ALL Federal employees learn early on that rule#1 is DON'T make any waves,DON'T piss off your boss, and most importantly NEVER get your name connected to anything controversial especially if it gets into the public media! Put another way, whatever you do, DON'T take any risks!!

I grew up in Washington D.C. I still live and work in the D.C. area. For most of my life, many of the people I respect the most have been Federal civil servants. Most of them are hardworking people who do the best job they can for far less money than they could make in the private sector. They do it becuase they have an ethic of public service.

I for one would appreciate it very much if I did not have to read any more blanket denunciations of Federal employees here. I have personally known many civil servants who were in it for something more than "the universally sought goal of a pension." I resent having my friends and neighbors stigmatized in this fashion.

This is me personally speaking, not the Moderator.


eledbetter@rypn.org

> Have you written....

> Better yet, have you volunteered?

How can one volunteer when they have a history of turning away volunteers?

How can we dump more money into an organization that does not manage their business like a business?

To build a greater advertising base (word of mouth) and bring in the dough, they need to run more trains. I know that sounds outrages but the reality is (and we can all talk about how they donÂ’t have control over trackage rights, lack of insurance, lack of workers, lack of available working equipment, etc., etc.,) if they do not offer runs that are convenient to the paying public the paying pubic will not come.

If your visiting the area and you want to ride the trains, how sad is it when it is only 2:00pm in the afternoon and the last train already has left? You have limited time and the wife wants check out the mall. Worse of all its Sunday. They only operate excursions on the weekends.

A place like Strasburg for example schedules many trains during the summer season. In fact 11 are on the board seven days a week. Now not every train is packed mind you. Many run not even half full but they are smart because they understand their customer base is the tourists visiting the Amish Country. Tourists donÂ’t always plan ahead and go to web sits to decided what to do next. They often have ideas of places they might like to visit then hop in the car and drive around. Some discover Strasburg by driving by. They may not have even had that on their plan book. But they see the steam trains and the kids get excited and they stop. Others plan to visit but come when they have time which can be in the morning or evening or in-between. IF the trains are not there to greet them they will dive away.

Now I am not saying that Steamtown should do just as Strasburg. I understand the many, many problems with this idea. But rather they do need to think more customer minded and running a railroad (a railroad is a profit making business folks) in a more business-like manor. It is a shame to visit and nothing is happening. I have been there many times and it is always the same. Nothing or very little new for the average customers.

Never mind me being a railfan. I will always find something interesting. But what of the average customers? They will not look at bunch of rusted cars and be interested. They don't see history that is important like I do. They only see a bunch of rusted cars. That was surly the case when I brought along my other-half not too long ago. "Looks like a bunch of rusted cars." she said. "Don't they care?" she asked. And she likes trains too almost as much as I do. She also asked why do they call it Steamtown if there is no steam.

Steamtown cannot live off of the railfanÂ’s support. There just arenÂ’t enough of us. They must live off of the paying public, the average Joe looking for a place that offers something different and unique to his trip.

I really do like Steamtown and hate to see it run into the ground. It reminds me of the Red Caboose Motel. It was the best place to stay. I can't say that now. It too has been runned into the ground due to poor management.

Thanks All. Just my 1 1/2 cents. Sorry for the long message.
Andrew