Don't know what made me think of this, but what is the story of C&S #71. When I was in Central City, CO as a kid, she was stuffed and mounted.

I know she ran for spell, but then the line was ripped up (again) and she was stuffed and mounted (again). Can anyone fill in the details?

Rob

> Don't know what made me think of this, but
> what is the story of C&S #71. When I was
> in Central City, CO as a kid, she was
> stuffed and mounted.

> I know she ran for spell, but then the line
> was ripped up (again) and she was stuffed
> and mounted (again). Can anyone fill in the
> details?

Here is a photo I took of her and Shay No. 14 just before the tourist operation shut down and 71 was stuffed & mounted the second time. I've heard that she sits outside a casino in Central City, CO, and the casino can't be convinced to part ways with her. There is a photo of her operating in summer of '87 and '88 in Mallory Ferrel's "Gilpin Gold Tram"

Ed
> Rob



ff1044@aol.com

Thanks for posting the picture, I always wondered about that operation. At this time were the Ashbys still involved with it? I didn't think that #14 and #71 were there at the same time. There is also a picture of #71 operating in Central City in "Railroads" by David Lustig, which is an excellent coffee table book that can be bought cheap used these days. It really captures the heyday of tourist/exursion steam.

-Ed Kelley

ed.kelley@discoverlivesteam.com

> At this time
> were the Ashbys still involved with it? I
> didn't think that #14 and #71 were there at
> the same time.

71 never ran while the Ashby's ran #14 & #44 there. The venture in the late 80's was done by a fellow named Court, I forget his last name. While ambitious and having some initial success, the project ran into the same problems as the Ashby's Colorado Central operation - Little backing from the city, limited parking, complaints about coal smoke and that big trestle that needed to be built a 1/2 mile down grade.
The 80's operation did repatriate 2 C&S boxcar frames from Alaska, which were built up as open tourist cars, to go along with the gondola and the combine. After the end of operations, the 2 tourist cars were purchased by the city of Breckenridge and rebuilt as proper box cars and displayed with the WP&Y rotary on display there.
There has been mention made of 71 being damaged or made worse of while it was being used. I'm not sure to the degree of what was done to it, and that being said, not trying to flame anyone, but it should be considered when looking at the loco. It will probably never leave Central City/Blackhawk at this point. Jason Midyette of the Boulder County group reports that the CHS wanted to use it /offer it to whoever takes over the track in Silver Plume, but they were told No in no uncertain terms.
Most of this is what I recall from an old article in Short and Narrow Rails. Corrections are welcome!

Mike Stillwell
Western Virginia Railroad Preservation Society

yenko117@yahoo.com

I believe the operator of No. 71 at Central City was Court Hammond, who was later involved with the Yreka Western and the remainder of the Missouri Pacific line in Colorado. Not sure of his involvement in any of these now.

ryarger@rypn.org

In any event gambling spelled the end of the Central City operation. Many casinos were built on top of the ROW. Today many of Central City's casinos have closed and the town is almost a ghost town again due to competition from neighboring Black Hawk. The C&S 71 is now stuffed and mounted in front of Harvey's Casino and I herd is now the property of Harvey's
Roger Mitchell

n0mcr@netzero.net

Here's a photo of the 71 outside the Casino taken in 1998.

BTW... The Colorado Historical Society and the City of Idaho Springs are having the #60 evaluated for possible use on the Georgetown Loop.


brianf425@yahoo.com

Somewhere on the web someone claimed that there was an "impostor" #71 at the Casino and that the real #71 was hidden somewhere else in Central City. Pretty crazy claim, I wish I could find that site again. This is obviously not true.

I've linked a photo of the #71 sitting at the old site of the tourist RR with a passenger car. It was rusting away.

-Ed Kelley


ed.kelley@discoverlivesteam.com

> Somewhere on the web someone claimed that
> there was an "impostor" #71 at the
> Casino and that the real #71 was hidden
> somewhere else in Central City. Pretty crazy
> claim, I wish I could find that site again.
> This is obviously not true.

They may be referring to this 2-8-0 which is nearby, down the canyon in Blackhawk. This locomotive is a South American repatriate that moved around quite a bit before taking up residence in front of a bank in Palmer Lake CO for several years.


brianf425@yahoo.com

The real ex-C&S 71 is property of the Opera Society in Central City. They almost parted with the engine in the 80's to Georgetown Loop. However the contract was canceled after the locos tender was moved.

The fake #71 is from Mexico ( I believe the C&Z narrow gauge) and was on display in Palmer Lake and later at a real estate company for some time.

The ex-C&S narrow gauge gondola that was displayed with #71 is still around. However it is in deteriated condition as it was converted badly to a passenger gon. The car had it's side board cut out for doors. The car was never restored back. I believe it is in storage in Central City.

I don't believe that any of the C&S narrow gauge steamers will restored unless mega bucks are used to restore them. Also the operation of historically irreplaceable locomotives on daily operations on the Loop would cause excessive ware and tear on these historical artifacts. They should be restored to operation only if they are used in special events a few times a year.

Dale Brown

> Don't know what made me think of this, but
> what is the story of C&S #71. When I was
> in Central City, CO as a kid, she was
> stuffed and mounted.

> I know she ran for spell, but then the line
> was ripped up (again) and she was stuffed
> and mounted (again). Can anyone fill in the
> details?

> Rob


dwbrown1@fuse.net

I don't know the exact build date of the C&S #71, but Knotts still runs two C-19s in amusement park service (given not daily always) that date to 1881. If they can be kept up well enough, its plenty possible I suppose. The Shays at the Georgetown Loop now are historically irreplaceable if you think about it from a California standpoint (not to say there are far fewer C&S locos then WSL, and the WSL shays are much newer). But the West Side engines are also far newer than the 1880s vintage of the C&S 71, 60, 9, etc. Earlier I read that the RGS engines (#42 in particular) had serious frame damage due to the conditions of the RGS. #41, ex-RGS, has been still running at Knotts (although getting worked on now). I suppose one COULD built a C&S 2-6-0 or 2-8-0 REPLICA, but that would set someone back QUITE a lot. Severn-Lamb, Kyosan Kogyo, Strasburg, and Tangshan are to my knowledge the only facilities that could possibly handle this job. And as mentioned Kogyo hasn't built steam in awhile, and SL has only built 4-4-0s. That was a key point of the V&T proposal was a replica. Only time will tell what happens with the C&S engines, the Georgetown Loop, etc. So I guess the C&S 9 is still at Uhrichs getting dissasembled?

Thanks,
Ed Kelley

ed.kelley@discoverlivesteam.com

> I don't know the exact build date of the
> C&S #71,

I believe C&S 69, 70 & 71 were the same
#69 Baldwin #11355 12/1890 USA 20
#70 Baldwin #11356 12/1890 USA 21



mike211@yknet.ca

> They may be referring to this 2-8-0 which is
> nearby, down the canyon in Blackhawk. This
> locomotive is a South American repatriate
> that moved around quite a bit before taking
> up residence in front of a bank in Palmer
> Lake CO for several years.

No, the engine is from Mexico. It came to California back in the mid-1960s from CyZ for a steam operation that never got off the ground. I posted information about these engines a little over a month ago during a thread entitled "Passenger Trucks and Wood Coaches". See the link below:

Brian Norden

CyZ equipment to California
bnorden49@earthlink.net

As to the argument that we should not restore a locomotive or car due to the fact that we might "wear it out", I have herd that argument many times even involving our street car #21 here in Fort Collins. The bottom line is that when you wear something out, you rebuild it. Car #21 was worn out when we started restoring it in 1977. We finished the rebuild in 1984 and have been running it ever since. We have worn many parts out since we started running it and have rebuilt things a couple of times over since. A few years ago we had new wheels made. The original wheels are now on a stuffed and mounted Birney in Greeley. We even made our own patterns to get new brake shoes made and now have a substantial inventory of replacements on hand with the ability to make more as needed. If it can be built in the first place, it can be rebuilt.
Roger Mitchell
Master Mechanic: Fort Collins Municipal Railway

Fort Collins Municipal Railway