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| Steam vs. neighbors https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10265 |
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| Author: | Bob Yarger [ Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Steam vs. neighbors |
In case you missed it in Flimsies, the age-old dispute between the trains and those who have chosen to live near them.. Sounds like West Virginia needs a law excluding steam locomotives from ordinary pollution requirements, as New Hampshire and Vermont passed some years ago. http://www.newstribune.info/articles/2004/07/15/news/news1.txt ryarger@rypn.org |
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| Author: | Bob Yarger [ Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | More |
Another article on same subject. http://www.newstribune.info/articles/2004/07/16/news/news1.txt ryarger@rypn.org |
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| Author: | Crij [ Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: More |
Sound like this situation should be added to the Photo Run-by thread, that was later Making Black Smoke on Photo Run-Bys. Defiantly sounds like the group is firing per the desires of the railfans, vs. the proper way. If the locomotive was fired correct, then there would be little to no visible smoke. Actually if I remember correct, the results usually obtained by over firing a locomotive, is soot build-up within the tubes, which equates to adding an insulating layer to the tubes, which if not scrubbed every so often will reduce the efficiency of the engine. Just my observations, Rich rcizik5519@earthlink.net |
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| Author: | Art Miller [ Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | A Policy Initiative? |
> Sounds > like West Virginia needs a law excluding > steam locomotives from ordinary pollution > requirements, as New Hampshire and Vermont > passed some years ago. Sounds more like railroad preservationists need to get busy and effectively lobby their state legislators for exemptive legislation, this before more of these events take place. http://www.rtms-movietrains.com amiller@rtms-movietrains.com |
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| Author: | Erik Ledbetter [ Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: More |
> Defiantly sounds like the group is firing > per the desires of the railfans, vs. the > proper way. If the locomotive was fired > correct, then there would be little to no > visible smoke. All the complaints cited in this article are specific to terminal operations in the yard in Ridgeley, West Virginia. These are not complaints about mainline train operations, but about smoke during enginehouse and yard dwell time and yard switching. Railfans and their desires are not an issue here one way or the other. eledbetter@rypn.org |
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| Author: | EDM [ Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: More |
Just a quick note on the difference between a coal burner and oil burner. A coal burner, unless the bottom tubes are plugged with lots of unburned coal, will generally scrub itself out. The cinders actually can erode the back tube sheet and the tubes, as well as superheater elements. Not so on an oil burner. They have to be sanded to keep them from sooting up. Usually done when the engine is working hard, an L shaped funnel is put in a hole in the firebox door, and several scoops of sand are poured in. The funnel is worked around to distribute the sand to all the tubes. Notice I used words like generally and usually. There are exceptions to everything, like tubes getting plugged from massive amounts of very un-scientific overfiring. > Actually if I remember correct, the results > usually obtained by over firing a > locomotive, is soot build-up within the > tubes, which equates to adding an insulating > layer to the tubes, which if not scrubbed > every so often will reduce the efficiency of > the engine. edm5970@earthlink.net |
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| Author: | Tim O [ Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Policy Initiative? |
I know it sounds silly, since one locomotive is meaningless in a world filled with diesel exhaust, auto emissions and other industrial hazards, but it's easy to blame that locomotive because you can SEE the pollution, however limited in scope it may be. One issue in dealing with your neighbors is that the neighborhood keeps expanding. Several years ago, people along the Steamtown excursion route complained about soot in their swimming pools, but I have never seen these pools alongside our tracks. I couldn't tell you where these neighbors are, or that their concerns were unworthy. Every pool gets dirty, and the train is only part of the environment they are exposed to. Reading the second article, it sounds like the engine may be having trouble keeping steam or heat up, and needs to keep the blower on full. Since I don't know the mechanical condition of no. 734, it seems as though the next big overhaul would fix this smokiness. If I remember correctly, 734 is hand-fired, and it would take a lot of firing to keep up a constant exhaust like that described. I also found it ironic when it described the hazard of the boy on his bike in the smoke. Wasn't it the biking crowd who want to be closer to the steam engines? My 2 cents. mustang746@mac.com |
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| Author: | EDM [ Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Policy Initiative? |
734 was fitted with a stoker from China a few years ago, but I doubt that it is used when firing up. I'm SURE it is used going up the mountain. > I know it sounds silly, since one locomotive > is meaningless in a world filled with diesel > exhaust, auto emissions and other industrial > hazards, but it's easy to blame that > locomotive because you can SEE the > pollution, however limited in scope it may > be. One issue in dealing with your neighbors > is that the neighborhood keeps expanding. > Several years ago, people along the > Steamtown excursion route complained about > soot in their swimming pools, but I have > never seen these pools alongside our tracks. > I couldn't tell you where these neighbors > are, or that their concerns were unworthy. > Every pool gets dirty, and the train is only > part of the environment they are exposed to. > Reading the second article, it sounds like > the engine may be having trouble keeping > steam or heat up, and needs to keep the > blower on full. Since I don't know the > mechanical condition of no. 734, it seems as > though the next big overhaul would fix this > smokiness. > If I remember correctly, 734 is hand-fired, > and it would take a lot of firing to keep up > a constant exhaust like that described. I > also found it ironic when it described the > hazard of the boy on his bike in the smoke. > Wasn't it the biking crowd who want to be > closer to the steam engines? > My 2 cents. edm5970@earthlink.net |
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| Author: | Steam REalist [ Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Policy Initiative? |
Artis correct, IMO, that it is going to require the RR preservation community to be proactive in several ways. First, we have to accept the fact that NIMBY's, no matter how stupid their actions, have power, the ear of the media, and they are NOT going away. Second, though they will always claim they "don't want to see the railroad go away," that is EXACTLY what they want. They don't care a whit about history, who was there first, jobs, facts, tourism or anything else except themselves and what bothers them and/or their tender sensibilities personally. Third, waiting for these people to "come to their senses" or for someone else to protect the railroad is a certain road to oblivion. This kind of thing happens to farmers all the time, and they almost always lose the battles and the war. Fourth, any legislative initiative will have to originate with the railroad and it's supporters and be written with their input, then they will have to do the hard, dirty work of lobbying for it until it's signed. Letting anyone else write it on their behalf will end up with something that "protects" it's right to exist by shutting it down and making it a static display, or placing so many burdens on operation that ti won't be worth it. Fifth, we have to help our own cause by getting rid of or at least making an effort to hide some our slimey underbelly...the junk piles that accumulate around buildings and stored equipment, weeds, trash and so forth. And to operate with less smoke and noise whenever possible. An "in your face" attitude will just bring problems. Sixth, realize that life isn't fair. And that not everyone is as enamoured of history or railroads as we are. |
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