Hello everyone. I was speaking with someone recently about the feasiblity of converting friction bearing equipment to roller bearing. I am pretty green on the process, so I pose these questions. What is the level of effort involved here? Is this something that has to be farmed out to a professional company, or can a group of workers handle the conversion provided they have all of the proper equipment? Are there conversion kits available from manufacturers? And I guess the most important question, what is the approximate cost involved? Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks. Seth



Wilmington & Western RR
sethajackson@hotmail.com

> Hello everyone. I was speaking with someone
> recently about the feasiblity of converting
> friction bearing equipment to roller
> bearing. I am pretty green on the process,
> so I pose these questions. What is the level
> of effort involved here? Is this something
> that has to be farmed out to a professional
> company, or can a group of workers handle
> the conversion provided they have all of the
> proper equipment? Are there conversion kits
> available from manufacturers? And I guess
> the most important question, what is the
> approximate cost involved? Any info is
> greatly appreciated. Thanks. Seth

What type of equipment are you converting?
Freight cars?
Passenger cars?
Locomotives? Diesel? Steam?


shadowtransit@yahoo.com

Just to add to seth's question,

Does adding refitting old trucks with roller bearings or adding new trucks to old equipment make a difference in regards to interchange rules? From my knowledge it doesn't, as interchange rules are based on the age of the car.



altoonaroundhouse@umich.edu

I have to ask why you would want to do this, unless your equipment is running at high speed or on a host railroad that demands roller bearings.

Friction bearings, properly maintained, are extremely reliable and long- lived in the low- to- medium speed service typical of most tourist roads.

Most car owners could find something better to spend a significant amount of cash on!

Steve Hunter,
Cardinal, Ontario

>I was speaking with someone recently about the feasiblity of converting friction bearing equipment to roller bearing...

Smiths Falls Railway Museum
s.c.hunter@sympatico.ca

I appreciate all of your comments, but I guess my initial post was kind of vague. Let me attempt to clarify in response to your specific questions:

>What type of equipment are you converting?
>Freight cars?
>Passenger cars?
>Locomotives? Diesel? Steam?

This is purely a hypothetical situation I'm wondering about. Nothing is being converted; I'm just curious about the possibility. I am more interested in freight cars, but my questions stand for anything really. Obviously, the process to convert a locomotive would be more involved than a piece of rolling stock.

>Does adding refitting old trucks with roller bearings or adding new trucks to old equipment make a difference in regards
>to interchange rules? From my knowledge it doesn't, as interchange rules are based on the age of the car.

Tom, I thought of this very question after I posted. I guess if someone could locate a set of trucks already converted from friction to roller, that would be a great work around if the group doing the converting didn't care about fouling up the historical accuracy of the car.

>I have to ask why you would want to do this, unless your equipment is running at high speed or on a host railroad that
>demands roller bearings.
>Friction bearings, properly maintained, are extremely reliable and long- lived in the low- to- medium speed service
>typical of most >tourist roads.
>Most car owners could find something better to spend a significant amount of cash on!

Precisely the reason I'm asking is because of interchange rules. Class Is don't allow anything with friction bearings unless it's a designated special move(usually chaperoned), right?

Well, I hope I haven't confused the issue further. Any info is appreciated. Thanks. Seth

Wilmington & Western RR
sethajackson@hotmail.com

Our 3 boxcars, which were built in 1956, and 1960 respectivly are all former friction bearing,which CP converted to roller bearing. This conversion is not allowed under the AAR rules, along with the age of the car. We have run into a situation where we may need to get them onto CN, but will run into the interchange problem for those reasons, unless a deal could be reached for a special move. CP will move them anywhere on thier system, since afterall they are thier cars, which is how we goth them there

Ken Jones Jr.
Niagara Falls Railway Museum


Niagara Falls Railway Museum
digitekfx@kwic.com

> This conversion is not allowed
> under the AAR rules, along with the age of
> the car. We have run into a situation where
> we may need to get them onto CN, but will
> run into the interchange problem for those
> reasons, unless a deal could be reached for
> a special move.

Hi Ken. Thanks for the info. I'm unfamiliar with these rules. So, even if the car has been converted to roller bearings and it is otherwise fit for interchange, if it's too old, it can't be interchanged? How old is 'too old'? Thanks. Seth

Wilmington & Western RR
sethajackson@hotmail.com

> Hi Ken. Thanks for the info. I'm unfamiliar
> with these rules. So, even if the car has
> been converted to roller bearings and it is
> otherwise fit for interchange, if it's too
> old, it can't be interchanged? How old is
> 'too old'? Thanks. Seth

Friction journal boxes converted to roller bearings are still perfectly feasible, but have been outlawed from free interchange due to the difficulty of hot box detectors picking the bearings up through the mass of the old journal box.

If your equipment is already 40-50 years old, you are going to have a free interchange problem anyway.

I have mostly moved old passenger cars, which by interchange nature, are a railroad by railroad private agreement. There are almost no passenger cars that we are moving that are newer than 40 years old.

Now, I have a copy of the AAR procedure for converting friction to roller that was in effect until the ban, and I began utilizing that conversion on passenger cars at Steamtown Foundation back in 1985. At that time we operated enough cars, and were putting enough journal oil on the tracks leading up the hill out of Scranton, that it was felt that all future wheelset purchases should be NFL roller bearing. Also, a properly done repack every two years does cost time and money; Hennesey no longer makes prelubed pads, and it is a general pain in the neck.

Funny thing about the AAR ban. Because carmen know that freight cars are not supposed to have the conversion any more, they will knee-jerk balk at moving them. I have never had any problems moving converted passenger cars, probably because they know they are moving something weird anyway.

Steve


SZuidervee@aol.com

> Friction journal boxes converted to roller
> bearings are still perfectly feasible, but
> have been outlawed from free interchange due
> to the difficulty of hot box detectors
> picking the bearings up through the mass of
> the old journal box.

> If your equipment is already 40-50 years
> old, you are going to have a free
> interchange problem anyway.

> I have mostly moved old passenger cars,
> which by interchange nature, are a railroad
> by railroad private agreement. There are
> almost no passenger cars that we are moving
> that are newer than 40 years old.

> Now, I have a copy of the AAR procedure for
> converting friction to roller that was in
> effect until the ban, and I began utilizing
> that conversion on passenger cars at
> Steamtown Foundation back in 1985. At that
> time we operated enough cars, and were
> putting enough journal oil on the tracks
> leading up the hill out of Scranton, that it
> was felt that all future wheelset purchases
> should be NFL roller bearing. Also, a
> properly done repack every two years does
> cost time and money; Hennesey no longer
> makes prelubed pads, and it is a general
> pain in the neck.

> Funny thing about the AAR ban. Because
> carmen know that freight cars are not
> supposed to have the conversion any more,
> they will knee-jerk balk at moving them. I
> have never had any problems moving converted
> passenger cars, probably because they know
> they are moving something weird anyway.

> Steve,
I think the whole thing regarding 40 year old passenger cars was resolved after the Catherine Booth debacle several years ago. I don't recall the specifics but basically she sued SP for not allowing her to move her 1927 business car because it was over 40 years of age. The end result was that passenger cars with rollers would not be included in the 40 year ban. However, some railroads began demanding the Amtrak spec. 40 year overhaul as a condition of movement.
I think I have that right.
Don Whatley



shadowtransit@yahoo.com

In the not to distant future I would expect the Amtrak "40 year" standard to be the rule of all passenger car movements.

It's for the safety of everyone involved.

Smokebox

> I think the whole thing regarding 40 year
> old passenger cars was resolved after the
> Catherine Booth debacle several years ago. I
> don't recall the specifics but basically she
> sued SP for not allowing her to move her
> 1927 business car because it was over 40
> years of age. The end result was that
> passenger cars with rollers would not be
> included in the 40 year ban. However, some
> railroads began demanding the Amtrak spec.
> 40 year overhaul as a condition of movement.
> I think I have that right.
> Don Whatley