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| NYC Niagara/F-3 Comparison https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10606 |
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| Author: | Superheater [ Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | NYC Niagara/F-3 Comparison |
This study has been mentioned periodically here, most recently in the past few days. Does anybody know if there's a copy to be had anywhere? superheater62@yahoo.com |
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| Author: | Dave Stephenson [ Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NYC Niagara/F-3 Comparison |
I believe you may be referring to Paul Kiefer's book, "A Practical Evaluation of Railroad Motive Power". It was published in June 1947. It has only 65 pages, but it's one of the best summary comparisons I've ever read. Compares steam, diesel (2 and 3-unit E7's, 3 and 4-unit F3/7), and electric. It has performance and cost curves for NYC's S1 L4, and J3. Now the big question: where to find it. Try the on-line book stores like bibliofind, alibris, others..... I've seen copies available in the past year. I got my copy many years ago when they were about $5.00. Haven't checked current prices lately, but it's worth a considerable amount for the information it contains. |
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| Author: | finderskeepers [ Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NYC Niagara/F-3 Comparison |
As an interesting comparison, Union Pacific considered its FEF-3 class northerns comparible to 3 E units at speeds over 40 mph. |
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| Author: | buddy bob [ Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NYC Niagara/F-3 Comparison |
> I believe you may be referring to Paul > Kiefer's book, "A Practical Evaluation > of Railroad Motive Power". It was > published in June 1947. It has only 65 > pages, but it's one of the best summary > comparisons I've ever read. Compares steam, > diesel (2 and 3-unit E7's, 3 and 4-unit > F3/7), and electric. It has performance and > cost curves for NYC's S1 L4, and J3. Now the > big question: where to find it. Try the > on-line book stores like bibliofind, > alibris, others..... I've seen copies > available in the past year. I got my copy > many years ago when they were about $5.00. > Haven't checked current prices lately, but > it's worth a considerable amount for the > information it contains. hello i have a copy of the book some were just what were you looking for? bb |
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| Author: | Steam REalist [ Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NYC Niagara/F-3 Comparison |
One thing that some in loud and clear in the book is that their experience with diesels was not yet deep enough for them to support some of the cost conclusions and availability numbers attributed to the diesels. NYC was maintaining it's diesels much like they did the steam locomotives, changing components and doing overhauls on a time basis, or on mileage intervals, either of which were far short of what the locomotives were capable of, and thus inflated the mainteance and repair costs and lowered the availability artifically. That had the effct (probably the desired effect) of making the diesels look worse than they were. And making the steam locos look better than they were. Once they figured out that they didn't have to baby the diesels as they had been doing, they also learned they didn't need as much out-of-service time, and the railroad didn't need nearly as many large shops and heavy repair facilities. And people. That made a huge cost difference in favor of the diesels. Of course, all of this was learned long after the book had been published and Kiefer was out of the picture. |
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| Author: | Seth Jackson [ Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NYC Niagara/F-3 Comparison |
If you go to Barnes & Noble's website, bn.com, and type in "A Practical Evaluation of Railroad Motive Power", it comes up empty; but there is a link from that page to "Search our Used & Out of Print Store". When I clicked on that, the search engine found two copies in good condition that apparently can be shipped from the dealers. Seth Wilmington & Western RR sethajackson@hotmail.com |
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| Author: | Jim Fitzgerald [ Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NYC Niagara/F-3 Comparison |
>SteamREalist has got it right. Kiefer was a genius when it came to steam, and though I never met him, I'll bet he was not in favor of the dieselization of the Central. I'd love to see that book. As they say, you can prove anything with numbers/statistics. Fitz's Steam Railfan page fitzrr@pioneer.net |
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