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| Park Engines - oil in tender https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10866 |
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| Author: | Dave [ Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | park hulk fuel |
Obvious is pump it out and take it to an operating oil burner. Sounds like it is a bit too late in this example. Of course, it will waterproof the ground under the tank pretty well.......you could mix it with the ballast and call it coarse asphalt. dave |
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| Author: | survivingworldsteam [ Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Park Engines - oil in tender |
This does look like some goopy stuff... like bunker C. And it is quite a bit of it; it fills the space between the rails under the tender and off to one side. Won't this stuff seep into the ground eventually; or is it too thick? Will bunker C put out a match if one is thrown in it; like diesel fuel? I assumed that someone needs to take a vacuum truck and suck it up; is that correct, or is it best left alone for now like the a***** on the boiler? -James Hefner Hebrews 10:20a Surviving World Steam Project |
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| Author: | Ed Fritz [ Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Park Engines - oil in tender |
Bunker C is considered mildly toxic but still requires a hazmat response. It is thick like lard, usually needs to be heated to about 135 degrees in order to flow and be pumped. As it ages, the lighter volatile chemicals evaporate leaving behind what is best described as a tar like those found in the La Brea Tar Pits. It has more BTUs per gallon than diesel but it is very difficult to work with until heated. It also requires burners that are quite a bit different than those found on diesel or crankcase oil burning engines. From your description, I don't think this sounds like something a couple of volunteers can handle on their own. Ed |
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| Author: | Bobk [ Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | bunker oil |
Don't open the proverbial can of worms and call the hazmatt people. Get a pumper truck out and suck the oil bunker of any residual oil. You may have to get someone out with a steam generator to help break up the bunker so it will pump. The oil on the ground can be shoveled into 55 gallon drums and taken to an appropriate hazardous waste disposal area. Look into some type of microbe that will be beneficial to cleaning the soil. This is done every day at Gas stations and old oil refineries. Calling the Hazmatt people doesn't necessarily mean that the clean up will be free. Someone could be charged for the work. Not only that you will draw attention to the engine and then those who need a reason to cut her up will have one. |
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| Author: | Ed Fritz [ Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: bunker oil |
Adam Mizer wrote: Don't open the proverbial can of worms and call the hazmatt people. Get a pumper truck out and suck the oil bunker of any residual oil. You may have to get someone out with a steam generator to help break up the bunker so it will pump. The oil on the ground can be shoveled into 55 gallon drums and taken to an appropriate hazardous waste disposal area.
Look into some type of microbe that will be beneficial to cleaning the soil. This is done every day at Gas stations and old oil refineries. Calling the Hazmatt people doesn't necessarily mean that the clean up will be free. Someone could be charged for the work. Not only that you will draw attention to the engine and then those who need a reason to cut her up will have one. At the risk of being a party pooper, while this answer is the simplest and the least expensive, it may not be legal for a spill located in a city park. And if isn't, should you or your assistants be caught, there is the very real possibility of significant fines and jail time to boot. While there have been many good turns done based on the premises that it's easier to go ahead and do it and ask for forgiveness later if needed, it is best to begin the deed fully informed. EPA bureaucrats are not noted for their sense of humor, mercy droppith from the sky as a gentle rain only in Shakespeare's "Merchant of Venice." In my Naval career, I had number of run ins with the EPA over fuel oil spills and black smoke not to mention the opportunity to watch them up close and personal during the Exxon Valdez clean up in '89. Ed |
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| Author: | Ken Middlebrook [ Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Bunker Oil |
During our one of our inititial inspections of SP2479, we found the locomotive's whistle buried under several inches of Bunker C in the oil tank. Apparently in the late 1960's while viewing the locomotive display, a former SP employee overheard a couple of kids discussing various methods of removing the whistle. The employee returned later that same day to remove the whistle and hide it in the oil bunker, knowing if someone were to restore the locomotive, it would be found. Unfortunately, none of the other missing locomotive's gems were found in the oil bunker. By the way, we arrranged to have a local recycler remove the remaining oil. |
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| Author: | Dave Lewandoski [ Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Park Engines - oil in tender |
and depending where you are, there could be a big fine for the oil on the ground. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Ed Fritz wrote: It also requires burners that are quite a bit different than those found on diesel or crankcase oil burning engines.
Ed Different Ed? I have been using a basic Van Boden Ingles type flame thrower for fuels ranging from Kerosene to Bunker C including diesel and crankcase waste with no problems assuming the thicker oils are heated in the tank. I recall the FEC had a burner design used on the old light pacifics like 153 and 113 which was different, and Crown engines use a Leahy industrial light fuel oil burner, GENERAL was reconfigured to use burners from a Vapor Clarkson steam genny, and there are some very interesting light oil burners being developed in the UK, Switzerland, etc. While some of these specific unusual examples are probably not too flexible in comparison, given the majority of oil burning locomotives probably use the flame thrower regardless of fuel, what would you suggest is a required different retrofit? dave |
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| Author: | Ed Fritz [ Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Dave wrote: While some of these specific unusual examples are probably not too flexible in comparison, given the majority of oil burning locomotives probably use the flame thrower regardless of fuel, what would you suggest is a required different retrofit?
dave About 35 years ago, I had a BT Top Watch (Boiler Technician, Senior Enlisted in charge of a boiler) manage to light fires using nothing more than a 3/8 inch pipe spraying oil at a great rate into fire box of a marine boiler. He failed to put the sprayer plate in the tip of the burner. One of the very few times I was really concerned for my life while operating a plant, I was afraid of developing an explosive mixture in the fire box with all that oil on deck and fire over it. So the point is, it doesn't take a lot engineering to make fire. I forgot that in locomotives, fire is fire don't sweat the small stuff like efficient combustion. Ed |
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