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Other Replicas
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Author:  survivingworldsteam [ Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Other Replicas
As long as we are talking about replicas; can any supply any details about who built these replicas. It appears most of these were themselves built during the Age of Steam, and have become artifacts in themselves:

    "John Stevens", the cog engine at the MSI, Chicago
    "York", a replica of an early B&O engine, also at MSI, Chicago
    A replica of Sandy River & Rangley 0-4-2T #4 at Phillips Historical Society, Bridge Hill Road, Phillips, ME
    "DeWitt Clinton" at the Henry Ford Museum
    "York"; this one at Agricultural & Industrial Museum, York, PA; does the replica itself really date from 1892?


Thank you in advance.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project
Author:  Jim Robinson [ Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  SR&RL Forney 4 replica
The replica of Sandy River & Rangeley Lakes 0-4-4RT 4 at Phillips, ME was completed in 1972 by an individual named Wesley Spear. Note that, like the long-gone real one, it's a 0-4-4RT and not a 0-4-2T. The replica isn't a real steam locomotive, rather it features a gas-mechanical drive. I believe the current "prime mover" is a Ford engine--I forget if it's a V6 or V8. The motor is in rear tank part of locomotive. Also, I'm not sure how "exact" this replica is in terms of comparison to the real one. However, it "looks the part" and I'm guessing it's close to the actual size of the real one.

Regards,
Jim Robinson
Author:  survivingworldsteam [ Thu Sep 16, 2004 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SR&RL Forney 4 replica
Jim Robinson wrote:
The replica isn't a real steam locomotive, rather it features a gas-mechanical drive. I believe the current "prime mover" is a Ford engine--I forget if it's a V6 or V8. The motor is in rear tank part of locomotive.


Opps; I need to remove it from the database then. Thank you!

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project
Author:  Ed Fritz [ Thu Sep 16, 2004 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SR&RL Forney 4 replica
Jim Robinson wrote:
The replica of Sandy River & Rangeley Lakes 0-4-4RT 4 at Phillips, ME was completed in 1972 by an individual named Wesley Spear. Note that, like the long-gone real one, it's a 0-4-4RT and not a 0-4-2T.


WARNING -- Off Topic -- but I feel like dumping some gas on the fire of contention. <BEG> Regarding the designation "R," in the case of the SP "Back-ups" you can argue with conviction that they indeed are reversed engines, i.e. the firebox is leading the smokebox. But the Forney design isn't reversed, the smoke box is out in front and is followed by the fire box. The other test, the engineer's position is on the right side when proceeding smoke box first like most other tank engines. So I submit that the Maine Forneys (ies?) are properly designated "0-4-4T"

Ed
Author:  Erik Ledbetter [ Thu Sep 16, 2004 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SR&RL Forney 4 replica
Ed Fritz wrote:
So I submit that the Maine Forneys (ies?) are properly designated "0-4-4T"

Ed


I always thought that in this case-- 0-4-4RT for a Forney-- the RT stood for Rear Tank, as opposed to Side Tank or Saddle Tank, and didn't denote anything about whether the firebox or the smokebox end was the front.
Author:  Ed Fritz [ Thu Sep 16, 2004 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SR&RL Forney 4 replica
Erik Ledbetter wrote:
I always thought that in this case-- 0-4-4RT for a Forney-- the RT stood for Rear Tank, as opposed to Side Tank or Saddle Tank, and didn't denote anything about whether the firebox or the smokebox end was the front.


Mr. Ron Ziel pushed for using the "R" to indicate reverse, particularly for the SP Back-ups. I've never seen a designation to differentiate between saddle or side tanks, so I always read "R" as reverse. Guess it depends on which way you saw it used first.

Ed
Author:  Jim Robinson [ Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Other Replicas
Yep, when I typed 0-4-4RT, the "RT" was to indicate "Rear Tank". I never heard of "R" being used to label an engine that was designed to operate in a reverse layout (e.g. cab forwards). By the by, the earliest forneys WERE set up for reverse layout operation with the tank leading. They sported a "headlight" on ether the tank "back" or on the cab roof and no light on the smokebox end. These early forneys had a pilot on what would be the "rear" of the engine. Some would argue that they were 4-4-0's!

In addition to "RT" meaning rear tank, I've seen saddle- or side-tankers labeled "ST" sometimes. Also, there are "WT" engines (ie, 0-4-0WT) which stands for "Well Tank". These were (mostly) european-built industrial locomotives that sported water tanks built into their frames. A few of these engines have come to the US for tourist service.

Regards,
Jim Robinson
Author:  survivingworldsteam [ Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Jim Robinson wrote:
In addition to "RT" meaning rear tank, I've seen saddle- or side-tankers labeled "ST" sometimes. Also, there are "WT" engines (ie, 0-4-0WT) which stands for "Well Tank". These were (mostly) european-built industrial locomotives that sported water tanks built into their frames. A few of these engines have come to the US for tourist service.

Regards,
Jim Robinson


I believe that use of "R" is the common one; I use it that way in my Surviving World Steam Locomotive CD-ROM, and it is used elsewhere as well.

Adding to your list; there are also tank engines which pull a tender as well; the following is an example:

Image

(The tender is hard to see, it has the name Anne.) This is a saddle tank/tender locomotive, or an 0-4-0ST-T.

Even more rare are saddle tank engines that have an additional side tank mounted on the running boards for oil. So they have side saddle tanks; an example is 0-4-0SST.

Fun, isn't it. :)

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project
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