*

Well, it matches the numbers on the builder's plate belt buckle made from 1361's junk journal brass that the 1361 restoration forces sold me............. for what that's worth.

Now, it COULD be the real thing.............

........... but I doubt it.

Well, you seem to be right. According to Bill Edson's "Keystone Steam and Electric," Juniata b/n 3475 was 1361, built 5/18. Edson shows it dropped from the roster in 1956, and I suppose it's possible that one of the original plates was "liberated" at about that time, while the engine was in storage. The eBay seller claims it was "hanging on a barn wall for about 50 years," which, if true, might support that. Whatever, if it's real, it surely wasn't acquired legitimately.

Herb Harwood

On a related subject, I bought the nameplate shown below on e-bay in September 2004. The only thing the buyer knew about it was that it was owned by an elderly gentleman, and purchased in an estate sale.

Notice the usual Worthington "wings" are missing, there is no works listed because there was only one factory. The size is 6 x 4 x 6; the serial number appears to be 1500; with perhaps one more digit at the end. (You can see an enlarged view of it here.)

Henry Worthington built the first direct-acting steam pump in 1840, and probably built hundreds of steam pumps a year. If the number is correct; this nameplate probably dates from the 1840s-1850s. The drawing it is resting on illustrates a Worthington steam pump from 1856; the duplex pump was not invented until 1857. (You can see the original drawing here.) This nameplate and drawing are the oldest items I am aware of in history of direct-acting steam pumps.

Once I got over the shock of what I had, I am wondering what to do with it. I am guessing I should not clean it in any way; I am thinking of mounting it in a shadowbox with the steam pump picture in the background.

I only paid $10.00 (including shipping) for it; while it is probably worth more now that I know what it is, I doubt it would fetch what this nameplate is. If I do part with it, I would like for it to go to a steam museum that can interpret it in the proper surroundings.



-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project

Apparently "The seller ended this listing early because the item is no longer available for sale."

Either he was made aware that he had a replica, or he was caught in a fraud. Or, possibly, just possibly, it *could* be the subject of negotiation with the Railroaders Memorial Museum.

Was 1361 ever deprived of it's plates while in storage? The image on eBay sure looks like a real plate, but it would require confirmation. If it is the original, the person putting it up for auction obviously didn't know what he had. All the way around, its' an embarassment to somebody.
I'm betting that more than one number or builders plate remains in the barn, up in the attic, down in a box of stuff from Grandpa's place when we cleaned it out.
The idea is fun to toy with!

Let's give him the benefit of the doubt until somebody has som definative answers.

Remember the Reading plates a while back.

Hey, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. IF this is a real plate that was "liberated" from a scrapline 1361 before its placement at the Horseshoe Curve, the theft/whatever happened nearly 50 years ago, and probably by an ancestor of the current seller--assuming we buy his story of "hanging on a barn wall" all these years.

It's just that the odds of the real plates from 1361 remaining "out of sight" for so long are SO remote that I can't buy it.

Re: the Reading FP7 plates on eBay a while back, I remember the VERY spirited discussion off-forum that erupted when they showed up. It appeared that the appropriate parties knew instantly who had them and when he must have liberated them, down to which week in March 1976. But we never did hear a final resolution of the case. On the one hand, the plates weren't sold along with the locomotive; on the other hand, they were still effectively "stolen property". So what was the final resolution? Or are we waiting for a certain person to die first?