While reading the thread about favotie steam locomotives,I was wondering...what locomotives were considered for the Freedom Train but did not make the final cut? I know the 8444 was considered,but UP did not want it out of their control for such a long period of time. ATSF 2925 was also considered,but not exactly sure she was not overhauled,but I would think her weight had a lot to do with it.The thread below mentioned SP 5021 as being considered,but I'm guessing that inside cylinder made people nervous.I was 13 at the time,but the AFT made me aquainted with big steam in the form of T&P 610. Why were none of the Southern locomotives involved? I eagerly await your comments.

Actually, I have never heard those allegations about the AT&SF, etc. locos being planned for the AFT. What I do remember being reported in "Railfan" before and during the AFT travels were plans to use a PAIR of NKP Berkshires (I think Rowland planned on 759 first, then 755 and 763, or whatever Berks he could get running), and also possibly a to-be-destreamlined-and-reshrouded N&W 611 from Roanoke, and maybe even C&O 614 for a spell. In the end, it came down to acquisition of both 2100 and 2101, with 2101 being rushed into operation in only 28 days.

On steamlocomotive.com this was written about SP 4-10-2 5021
"Today, 5021 is kept in excellent condition. This is partially due to circumstances that occurred in the 1970s. In preparation for excursion runs in the Southern California area after the Freedom Train had made her visit, 5021 was taken to the San Bernardino Roundhouse (Santa Fe) and completely overhauled. The overhaul was completed and during certification, a question was raised concerning the traveling into and out of the Los Angeles County area: Does the locomotive have a "smog" device? The answer was no, so approval from the APCD was denied. The cost to bring the engine into line with this requirement was too large to be absorbed, so the locomotive was moved from the roundhouse back to the fairgrounds immediately after the departure of the Freedom Train for storage. "

I think there was also some problems concerning weight restrictions (bridge loading) and clearance as far as height in using some of the bigger locomotives. The T-1's were a shorter and lighter than 4449 for instance, which allowed it to run on the older and smaller loading gaugeds on the east coast lines.

I believe that the NKP Berk's were 755 at Conneaut, OH, and 763 at Roanoke. 763 was actually taken to the Elizabethport shops of the CNJ for overhaul, but subsequently returned to Roanoke.

I've heard about the 2101's 28 day overhaul for her AFT service, but where was she before the overhaul, and how long had she been there? Why was a 28 day "tune-up" even possible?

I've always loved this subject and am one of those that still believes we need a new Freedom Train, somehow, someday. Please hold the "no class 1 will let it happen" comments, the insurance issues, etc. We've heard it all before!

Afterall, where would we be without our dreamers? :-)

Pure fiction.

Sandy pretty much got it. Find a copy of the Winter 1976 Railfan magazine, which has a good article about the development of the Freedom Train.

Among the locos considered:

PRR K4s 1361 and 3750 ("tentative permission to borrow" supposedly given)
NKP 2-8-4s 755 and 763 (as stated, 763 was already in NJ when corporate sponsors forced a change of plan)
N&W 4-8-4 611, de-streamlined (the engine shown in the AFT logo)
"a Santa Fe 4-8-4" (presumably 2925)

they finally settled on SP 4-8-4 4449.

It was only when Penn Central determined that 4449 wouldn't fit under its wires that Rowland purchased 2100 and 2101 and performed the "instant overhaul - just add water" on AFT No. 1.

The T&P 610 project was done unofficially, and as I recall the mechanical work was led by Dick Jensen. It only operated a few days, and missed some of its dates due to problems.

JAC

Edited to add:

"NK" is not North Korea, and I don't dislike New Jersey - I just can't abbreviate it before my 5th cup of coffee, apparently.

UP 844 was not mentioned as a locomotive considered.

Southern's locomotives were unsuitable (old, small) for a nationwide tour on a long train, and in any event SOU planned a full schedule of Bicentennial excursions.

I thought NC&STL Dixie type 4-8-4 576 at Nashville,Tennessee was considered and that Southern's master steam mechanic Bill Purdie even inspected it for AFT.It turned out that the city of Nashville refused to let it go and then changed their mind when it was too late and the Freedom train was about to roll.

TVRM wanted, 576, not AFT.

I seem to recall that the City approached Southern after they rejected TVRM, but would have to look it up.

JAC

Both RDG locos were in a Baltimore scrap yard before the 28 day miracle job began. I believe the owner's name was Stregal, but my spelling may be off. He kept several locos that the railroad sold for scrap and then went back to them to go the B&O Museum, as I recall. The work was done at the B&O Riverside roundhouse. Ross Rowland had an office car there, a slumbercoach, and a diner. I spent several days on the job, sleeping in a bedroll in the slumbercoach. They got us up for breakfast about 5:00 am, gave us lunch and dinner, and we quit about 9 or 10 pm, if not later. The goal was met with lots of paid and volunteer help and tons of money. I remember staybolt caps that were cast in a southern foundry and brought there by air freight. You can just imagine the cost for such heavy packages. These were too small so they were cast aside and a new batch was there two days later, also by air freight. The loco looked like an anthill on the weekends, there were so many people working on it. I was available during the week, when it was calmer.

The scrapyard was Striegel, over on the southeast side of town adjacent to I-695 near Quarantine Road. Throughout the years, Mr. Striegel himself shepherded many preservation efforts, including personally seeing to it that the B&O Museum became aware that, somehow, he had ended up with B&O 2-8-2 4500 and P-7 4-6-2 5300, and giving them time to come up with a "repatriation" plan. In later years, the scrap business dwindled to nothing, although over the decades the scrapyard saw a lot of C&NW Baldwins, a couple RDCs, the last PRR RS1, a SCL RSC3, an Amtrak fuel tender E-unit, and a particularly derelict PRR E7B.

Insofar as the "miraculous" 28-day restoration to service, just remember two things mostly unspoken: 1) there was a second T1 as a source of spares, if needed, and 2) a LOT of additional work on the 2101 had to be performed while 4449 took the train west initially--and some of that work was performed over the winter of 1975-76 in the very Reading shops that had built the 2101!

(Remember that, for all practical purposes, the AFT went from city to city mostly at night, and in the initial stages mostly under the assistance of piloting diesels. All she had to do was sit at the display area and look nice and hot. I have heard at least one allegation that the 2101 was not *quite* fit to handle the train herself after the initial overhaul, mostly because of running gear problems; but I will defer to those who were there--I think a certain person responsible for the AFT and 2101 in the first place occasionally pops up on this board?)

Actually, 2101 did get work in Reading - but during its Chessie stint.

From March through July 1975, AFT1 hauled the train from Washington up through New England, then over to Chicago, where 4449 relieved it. No. 1 then ran light down to Irondale, AL, where it spent the winter in Southern's shop. Running gear, firebox, and appliances got attention.

4449 eventually brought the train to Birmingham, where no. 1 took over again for the return to the northeast.

4449 ran its now-famous excursion to Alexandria in August, and No. 1 brought the AFT to Washington in late September. 4449 then worked the train down to Miami, where AFT came to an end. (4449 ran back to Birmingham in January 1977, then on to Portland in April and May.)

While 4449 was finishing up with AFT, no. 1 moved to RDG's Saucon Creek roundhouse in Bethlehem, PA. After the 1977 Chessie Steam Specials, 2101 spent the winter in the Reading shops getting running gear work and lubrication modifications designed for the T1s in steam days but never applied.

JAC

As I recall, the Southern wanted the 576 in the late '70s for their steam program to pull bigger and heavier trains. May have been about the time they leased T&P 610, or possibly after 610 went back to Texas and C&O 2716 (briefly) became Southern's "big" engine. The SR excursions were popular systemwide and 4501, 722 and 630 were limited in the number of coaches they could handle.

Doe anyone know the full story on why 2716's stint was curtailed, and why she never returned to service. Sometime after the merger with N&W it was suggested she "might" return as a Virginian Class BA (No. 510?, next higher roster number) with Virginian engines near copies of the C&O Kanawhas.

I do not know the full 2716 story but from what I hear it had some firebox problems. At one point it returned lite to Birmingham by way of Chattanooga and the report from some friends of mine was that water was pouring from the syphons. I have never seen the 2716 in person but the folks telling me this know steam locomotives and occasionally worked in and around the steam program.

I hope I am remembering the details correctly.

John Bohon