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BIG Steam (but not a locomotive!)
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Author:  Stephen Hussar [ Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  BIG Steam (but not a locomotive!)
Got to see the giant steam engines inside the old Chestnut Hill Waterworks High Service Building the other day. Amazing. The photo is of a corner of the Allis engine, which stands around 40 feet tall. The flywheel in the photo is approx. 18 feet in diameter.

In the basement I found a large locomotive style air compressor (looked like a Westinghouse) but was made by Crown Metal Products. Didn't know they made such things, and was curious if anyone had ever used one as a replacement part on a steam locomotive? (I'll get a picture next time I'm there)


Image
Author:  survivingworldsteam [ Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BIG Steam (but not a locomotive!)
Stephen Hussar wrote:
Got to see the giant steam engines inside the old Chestnut Hill Waterworks High Service Building the other day. Amazing. The photo is of a corner of the Allis engine, which stands around 40 feet tall. The flywheel in the photo is approx. 18 feet in diameter.

In the basement I found a large locomotive style air compressor (looked like a Westinghouse) but was made by Crown Metal Products. Didn't know they made such things, and was curious if anyone had ever used one as a replacement part on a steam locomotive? (I'll get a picture next time I'm there)


Stephen;

Thank you for posting a great picture! Would love to see more pictures of the plant's steam pumps.

In 1959 and 1960, steam locomotive use was in steep decline in North America. Westinghouse realized this, and wanted to divest itself of it's steam driven air compressor line.

However, a company called Crown Metal Products was just getting started building a line of small (15", 24", and 36" gauge) 4-4-0s for use in amusement parks. They needed the 9 1/2 simplex air compressors for their locomotives, so they bought out the entire line, including the large cross-compound air compressors.

During a recent visit to the Texas State Railroad, I took a close look at the steam pumps on Texas & Pacific 2-10-4 #610; and found that one of her steam pumps was built by Crown. The pump was probably installed as part of the Freedom Train restoration to replace one (maybe both) of the existing pumps.

The left side of the picture below shows a Westinghouse 8½ cross-compound air pump on a Shay in a park in Forks, WA, USA (Photo by Tim Lynch 2003). At lower right is a WABCO 8½ cross-compound air pump as built by Crown Metal Products (Wayno, PA, USA) and installed on Texas & Pacific 2-10-4 #610; compare the casting details between the two (Photo by James Hefner 9/04). At upper right is the Nameplate for the WABCO air pump installed on Texas & Pacific 2-10-4 #610; size 8½ x 15, serial number 226018 (Photo by James Hefner 9/04).


Image

This is the kind of fodder for my Steam Lizards Group on Yahoo; I just posted an album of steam pumps photographed on the steam locomotives in the Shenyang Railway Museum, Shenyang, China. I was about to explain in a message to the group that the Chinese evidently modifed the steam locomotives to include features they wanted; including the same size and make of steam pumps and all-weather cabs. The end result is that DK5-250 (a Romainian-built copy of the German BR-50 "Kriegslok" 2-10-0) ended up with three air pumps along the side of it's boiler; I can imagine the noise when the trains brakes were being pumped up!

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project
Author:  Dave [ Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BIG Steam (but not a locomotive!)
Crown Metal Products bought the air pump business with all patterns, tooling, dies, etc from WABCO and produced them until selling the business to Backshop Enterprises, who can now build you a new air pump if you need one. I am told Pittsburgh Air Brake bought the valve rebuilding business from WABCO but I don't know for a fact. New very small bore (about 4") air pumps were recently built by Rodney at the Engineerium for Puffing Billy to use on their little Decauville teakettles, one of which was remodeled to resemble a Maine 2 footer.

dave
Author:  John Bohon [ Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BIG Steam (but not a locomotive!)
Back in the seventies when I was a frequent visitor to the EBT I noticed several of the air compressors on their engines had Crown Metal plates. When I ask Mr. Wilburn why he said the EBT provided Crown Metal with a place to test run some of their 3 foot gage engines and recieved the compressors in exchange. I do not remember if they were new or rebuilt compressors.

Unless it has been changed out in the last couple of years one of the pumps on Graham County shay number 1925 at Spencer is a Crown Metal product. I do not know when it recieved this pump or if it was new or rebuilt.

John Bohon
Author:  Stephen Hussar [ Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BIG Steam (but not a locomotive!)
Thank you all. I knew of Backshop Ent., but was unaware that Crown produced the same air pumps in the interim. You can imagine how surprised I was to see that familiar WABCO shape mounted on a basement wall near the base of the Allis engine. And just to keep this even more railroad related, the massive wooden conveyor and 6 coal shutes are still suspended from the ceiling of the coal room. They must have unloaded countless hoppers into that building.

Here's one more looking up at the cylinders. And yes, that's wood paneling on the ceiling.

Image
Author:  John Bohon [ Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BIG Steam (but not a locomotive!)
I think it was pretty common to have locomotive style compressors in facilities that had steam and also used air. The Western Maryland Railway's shop in Hagerstown, MD had several mounted on the walls at various locations. It seemed strange to be in a diesel facility and hear a single stage compressor thumping away in another part of the building. I have been in other railroad and even a couple of non railroad facilities with WABCO or New York compressors mounted on the wall.

John Bohon
Author:  John E. McNamara [ Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BIG Steam (but not a locomotive!)
survivingworldsteam wrote:
Stephen;

Thank you for posting a great picture! Would love to see more pictures of the plant's steam pumps.


For more pictures (although not as good as Steve's), see http://www.chwaterpumps.com/Galleries/Gallery.htm
Author:  Brian Norden [ Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: air brake shops
Pittsburgh Air Brake Co. is an independent air brake shop that not only repairs, services, and test present day air brake equipment, but also does U-12 valves, various triple valves (K, L and P), and many other out-of-production items that the Wabco shops do not touch.

See their website at http://www.pghairbrake.com

Westinghouse Air Brake (Wabco) is now a part of Wabtec. Its website says:
Quote:
Wabtec Service Centers can repair, remanufacture or upgrade virtually any pneumatic or electronic braking system component for locomotives, freight cars and passenger transit vehicles. Fast turn-around service is provided from strategic locations throughout the United States and Mexico.


In the west I am aware that one Wabtec air brake shop is located at Carson City, Nevada, and another one that does transit work is located at Sun Valley, California.
Author:  survivingworldsteam [ Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BIG Steam (but not a locomotive!)
John Bohon wrote:
I think it was pretty common to have locomotive style compressors in facilities that had steam and also used air. The Western Maryland Railway's shop in Hagerstown, MD had several mounted on the walls at various locations. It seemed strange to be in a diesel facility and hear a single stage compressor thumping away in another part of the building. I have been in other railroad and even a couple of non railroad facilities with WABCO or New York compressors mounted on the wall.


In the case of steam pumping stations, I believe the purpose of the air compressor was to pump air into the pump chambers. You can see the air chambers for the Worthington cross-compound pumping engine and the Leavitt Beam Engine in the picture at:

http://www.chwaterpumps.com/Pictures/htm/115.htm

Notice the pipes leading straight down into the air chambers for the Worthington in left side of the picture. I think the air compressor on the wall probably pumped air into those pipes; if you "chased the pipes", you could probably prove or disprove that for yourself.

Those chambers used the cushion of air in the top to even out the pump pulses. The water inside of them also helped to make sure the engines always pumped against water, and were not damaged by cavitation.

McNeill Pumping Station in Shreveport, LA has a Westinghouse one lung air compressor mounted on a pad; the link below shows one of the air chambers and the Westinghouse air compressor at Mill Meece Pumping Station in Meece (N. of Eccleshall), Staffordshire, UK:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/howard.v.m ... m_pump.htm

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project
Author:  Ted Miles [ Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BIG Steam (but not a locomotive!)
James,

You know about the Society for the Preservation of Stationary Steam engines in England. But for others reading this, I suggest a visit to their web site.

Last I knew, it had back issues of their newsletter posted.

Instellations for pumping water are amazing! several of them are museums like the Que Bridge Pumping Station in London. For the main enggines, it has a pair of 120 inch (diameter) Beam Engines, as wellas an assortment of other equipment.

Ted Miles
Author:  gmray [ Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BIG Steam (but not a locomotive!)
Al Phillips and I were down in Savannah a couple of year's ago for Angel and Rudd Long's wedding and while we were there, we visited an old power station down on River Street. During our tour, we noticed a cross compound air compressor mounted to a wall. A plant operator was with us and he said in all his years there no one had any idea what the thing was. The air compressor was located in an area of the plant no longer used but it was quite fascinating to be able to explain to this guy what it was and how it worked.

We also asked for first dibs on it should they decide to part ways with it.
Author:  survivingworldsteam [ Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BIG Steam (but not a locomotive!)
Ted Miles wrote:
James,

You know about the Society for the Preservation of Stationary Steam engines in England. But for others reading this, I suggest a visit to their web site.

Last I knew, it had back issues of their newsletter posted.


The website for the International Stationary Steam Engine Society (or I.S.S.E.S.) is at:

http://www.steamenginesociety.org/

They have a North American branch; their website also has a membership form. I finally made good on my intentions to do so, and joined this past August.

They are also compling a list of surviving stationary steam engines worldwide; that is why I have not done so as part of my Surviving World Steam Project.

Ted Miles wrote:
Instellations for pumping water are amazing! several of them are museums like the Que Bridge Pumping Station in London. For the main enggines, it has a pair of 120 inch (diameter) Beam Engines, as wellas an assortment of other equipment.

Ted Miles


The steam museum at Kew Bridge Pumping Station features steam of all kinds: locomotives, vehicles, and stationary steam; including the station's original steam pumps. The website for the museum is at:

http://www.kbsm.org/

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project
Author:  Finderskeepers [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BIG Steam (but not a locomotive!)
[quote="Stephen Hussar"]Got to see the giant steam engines inside the old Chestnut Hill Waterworks High Service Building the other day. Amazing. The photo is of a corner of the Allis engine, which stands around 40 feet tall. The flywheel in the photo is approx. 18 feet in diameter.

[quote]

That is one very impressive piece of machinery, I didn't go searching for infomation on it, is it still operational, part of museum, or just unused and locked up like the poor engines that inhabited the solvay coke plant?
Locally we have a very large steam pumping engine too, and the first time I went to see it, it was working under steam supplied by a plant that used steam next door. The next time I went to see the engine, it was turning over with an electric motor. What a change and disappointment, it lost all its charm, the smell of hot oils, the whooshing sound of the steam entering those big cylinders, the little groans, taps and ticks that let you know an engine is alive. It went from being the museum of steam to the mausoleum of steam. Really sad, kind of reminded me of a patient living on life support, you know in the back of your mind its just not the way things were intended to be. I've never been back. :(
Author:  Stephen Hussar [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BIG Steam (but not a locomotive!)
Quote:

The next time I went to see the engine, it was turning over with an electric motor. What a change and disappointment, it lost all its charm, the smell of hot oils, the whooshing sound of the steam entering those big cylinders, the little groans, taps and ticks that let you know an engine is alive. It went from being the museum of steam to the mausoleum of steam. Really sad, kind of reminded me of a patient living on life support, you know in the back of your mind its just not the way things were intended to be. I've never been back. :(


That's a really good point. I had heard the suggestion made that one of the big engines be made to move via an electric motor, and you're right it wouldn't be the same at all. These engines are safe. The state of Massachusetts, current owners of the property, have included their preservation in the deed to the property. The development company which is poised to take posession of the building is required as such to keep them accessible to the public and create a fund for their upkeep. There is a small group (which seems to be growing) nudging the developer to create a real museum and possibly restore the Worthington and maybe even the Allis someday to some form of operation.
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