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| Subway Photography Ban in New York https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11562 |
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| Author: | ontracked [ Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Subway Photography Ban in New York |
I'm not sure if anybody has mentioned this on RYPN yet; but I think it's fairly significant news of a historic railroad network, and for transit rail photographers and fans. I recently was informed that the Metropolitan Transportation Authority here in New York is lobbying to ban photography of subways in New York. The subways are a very historical mode of transportation since their invention before the turn of the century; and the subway is almost synonamous with New York (along with the taxicab). An event this Fall bringing old subway cars out to run again proves the significance of these cars to the city. The ban the MTA is looking to pass is for post-9/11 security purposes. However, it's encroaching on the rights of the New Yorkers whose taxes pay to keep those trains running, and the tourists that are vital to the city's economy that come to see the famous New York City subway. Keeping our country safe is a very important thing at this time, however, this seems like an extreme measure and something that has always proven to be harmless (with the exception of if any incidents involving photography from dangerous or illegal points; which is the photographer's fault anyhow). Whatever is captured by a camera is something anybody can see; and keeping it as a memory doesn't sound like a bad thing at all. Those interested in reading articles, as well as contacts, can visit this link, which is at a very popular website for subway/transit fans. Thanks, Ed Kelley New York |
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| Author: | crij [ Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Subway Photography Ban in New York |
From what I have heard, one of the reasons, why for the last few years (pre 9-11)for the subway photography bans across the country is because of the IDIOT MOOK `railfans' that don't know how to control their flashes, or are only concerned with getting a good photo in the dark tunnel. Some people don't realize how long it takes the human eye to recover from a camera flash, especially when they are working in a dark tunnel and need their night eyes to operate safely. Think about the last time someone used a flash on you, how long did you have to suffer with the flash burn spot in your eyes? You can almost double that when working at night or in a dark tunnel. ****Note the quote marks before and after the word railfan are for a reason. This is to exclude courteous railfans, like myself, who tend to unfortunately get lumped into the same class as the mooks.**** Also unfortunately it is hard to regulate those idiots without stepping on the courteous ones. For rules everything has to be written to protect the idiots from themselves. Just like an Engineering (mechanical) teacher told me once: `As soon as you design something to be fool proof, someone will come out with the new and improved fool.' Take care, Rich C. |
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| Author: | wilkinsd [ Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Subway Photography Ban in New York |
Unfortunately, from a regulatory standpoint, it makes sense to ban photography whosale in the subway. That way, MTA and the transit police do not have to spend time trying to figure whom is using photography for legitimate purposes. Remember, in the world we live in, the terrorits probably would try to look like tourists. Also, if I remember correctly, I think London Transport had a photography ban in the Tube back when I visited London in 1998 or so. |
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| Author: | Al Patterson [ Sat Dec 04, 2004 12:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Subway Photography Ban in New York |
I for one disagree, If I wanted to live in a society where they ban things "for my protection" I would have moved to the Soviet Union. I spoke to a railfan once who tried some photography in the USSR back in the '80s. If the USA goes to their security model, you might as well sell your cameras now.. |
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| Author: | wilkinsd [ Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Subway Photography Ban in New York |
Well, you don't have to look back to the "Evil Empire" for times when railroad photography was banned, or at least frowned upon. Typically, in times of war or nationa cisis, Americans have been willing to give up limited rights, includig to take photographs of trains and rapid transit equipment. During WWII, may railroads frowned upon railfan photography. I've read about this in many publications. The fact of the matter is that before WWII, German and Japanese spies posed as tourists and took photos of key bridges, yards, and terminals. If I remember correctly, the German spies who were inserted via U-Boat in 1942 or 1943 had the plans and photographs of the C&O's Limeville, Ohio bridge. More recently, "employees" of the Iranian mission to the United Nations in New York were caught photographing key points in the NY Subway system, including tunnel entrances. This was enough evidently for the MTA to start wondering about security. This, combined with the previously-mentioned safety factor from setting off camera flashes in the dim subways was probably enough for the MTA to propose the policy. However, if the policy is up for public comment, then do just that, comment on it. |
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| Author: | ontracked [ Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Subway Photography Ban in New York |
The idiot railfans don't only don't care about anyone else; they don't even care about themselves when putting themselves in danger for "the perfect shot", which seems to be all they care about!! I've heard horror stories of emergency braking to miss hitting one of these idiots that wouldn't move out of the way...waiting for "that perfect shot". These people are a safety hazard and besides which, could be ambulance-chasers and an insurance hazard! Respect the rules and 'restricted area' signs, the RR's patrons, and yourself if your'e going to take the day to foam! I heard one 'idiot mook' railfan got it by falling in the ashpit at SRC trying to shoot the 475 or something... |
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| Author: | John Bohon [ Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Subway Photography Ban in New York |
I am afraid I can not support banning activities like photography and most certainly not when it is done in public areas or from public property. I personally think the whole country has lost its mind. I refuse to live my life in fear and do not understand how anyone can reconcile themselves to do so. If a terrorist gets me he wins. If he makes me retreat into a cocoon and not do things I like or need to do he wins. The only I win is to continue to live my life as I always have and not let them ruin my life. On the railroad I work for the trainmaster recently called the police and reported a railfan who walked down the track to take a photo of a flatcar of lumber as a possible terrorist. The trainmaster is a retired military guy who says he was acting in the name of national security. I was not aware you could make a bomb from pine lumber. My typical work day has me driving an average of 135 miles. I am far more likely to be hurt or killed by one of the idiots on the road with me than a terrorist. For that matter I am a lot more afraid of hunters shooting at or down the track than a terrorist. Of course these are only my opinions. However as a working railroader as well as someone who loves steam locomotives and occasionally photographing them I feel they are valid. Without photographers the preservation industry will take another hit and the number we can take is finite. Photographers occasionally buy tickets and work on equipment too. John Bohon |
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| Author: | Tolbert V. Prowell [ Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Subway Photography Ban in New York |
Concerning the proposed banning of photography of the New York subway system and in reference to the third paragraph of the posting: Instead of banning photography as a means of enhancing the security of the subway system, maybe it would make more sense to simply move the UN out of New York City to a foreign location. Baghdad comes to mind. |
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| Author: | ontracked [ Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | More News on Subway Photo Ban |
Just to understand to extent of how upsetting this is to New Yorkers and a planned protest coming up, this link is pretty complete in explaining it with both words and photographs. The site makes a key point in pointing out the MTA wanting to turn a profit on images taken by the press; and also by censoring what they want and don't want seen on their photo operations. Sounds sort of like the Disney backstage tours a few years ago...though most tour guides have lightened up; especially the WDWRR tour. http://www.forgotten-ny.com/protest/flashmob.html |
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| Author: | Joshua K. Blay [ Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: More News on Subway Photo Ban |
Hope they ban those cellphones with camera ability too. Good luck trying to keep on top of those. Joshua |
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| Author: | G Schultz [ Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Subway Photography Ban in New York |
wilkinsd wrote: Unfortunately, from a regulatory standpoint, it makes sense to ban photography whosale in the subway. That way, MTA and the transit police do not have to spend time trying to figure whom is using photography for legitimate purposes.
Remember, in the world we live in, the terrorits probably would try to look like tourists. Also, if I remember correctly, I think London Transport had a photography ban in the Tube back when I visited London in 1998 or so. Those willing to surrender precious liberties for the sake of security deserve neither. - Ben Franklin |
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| Author: | Thomas Manz [ Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ban flash photography in the subway? |
I prefer available light photos, but then you have the problem of setting up a tripod on a crowded platform...>sigh< |
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| Author: | JimBoylan [ Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ban flash photography in the subway? |
Thomas Manz wrote: I prefer available light photos, but then you have the problem of setting up a tripod on a crowded platform...>sigh< The present rules for New York's system prohibit the use of tripods and flash equipment.
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