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Seems odd... (Continuation of "period photo freights&qu
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Author:  pm-man [ Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Seems odd... (Continuation of "period photo freights&qu
.. that given that so many operations are using CN/ CP - heritage steam, but do not have the requisite cabooses to go with them. Ohio Central, Steamtown, Strasburg --- does anybody operating Canadian (o.k., I count GT and CV in this) Steam have the right waycars to go with them?

Not attacking, just asking!

On another turn, even the American counterparts seem to be lacking. Reasons?

TJG
Author:  johnacraft [ Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Seems odd...
Cabooses in use in the 1950s, as steam locomotives were phased out, were still serving a use, and probably not available to railroad museums. Railroad groups tended to take what was being phased out and sold for scrap - heavyweight passenger equipment, steam locomotives, etc.

With a couple of exceptions, the idea of a "collections policy" is a strange one in the "railroad museum" world.

The closest thing I can think of to an orderly accession is the purchase by Colorado and New Mexico of the D&RGW narrow gauge assets. Even then, D&RGW wouldn't sell the states everything they wanted (more cabooses, for example). The PRR or AT&SF collection comes to mind, too.

As for tourist lines, well, that equipment is purchased with an eye to utility, not coherence of collection. A caboose from railroad X might not match a steam locomotive from railroad Y, but it gets the job done.d

JAC
Author:  crij [ Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Seems odd...
I guess you can count the Connecticut Eastern Railroad Museum, in Willimantic, Ct, out of that list (with out a period consist).

Once everything is cleaned up and made presentable, here is what we currently have on site:

--Central Vermont--
CV 8081 Alco S-4, built February 1955, half painted, needs electrical
CV 40' Flatcar 4287, Built 1914, useable
CV 40' outside braced Boxcar, 43022, built 1929, modified 1940s, useable
GTW 40' steel Boxcar 515747, built 1949, useable
CV Truss-rod caboose 4029, medium restoration
CV Steel frame Caboose 4052, heavy restoration

--NYNH&H--
NYNH&H / CDoT EMD FL-9 #2023, built 1960, almost usable
NYNH&H 8673 & 8695, 82' PS coaches, built 1947/8, externally usable
LIRR 400, 44 tonner, painted as NYNH&H #800, operable

NYNH&H #3841 Wooden Baggage car (originally Horse and Carrage car) built 1906, needs paint and mild restoration
NYNH&H #4414 copper clad coach, built 1907 (modified 1929), medium to heavy external restoration, full internal

Other on site equipment:
CERRM 1, 25 tonner, former CL&P Millstone switcher, operable
Pfizer 2, EMD SW-8, former Wabash, N&W, NS, operable
MEC 10, Fairmont type 3100 Railbus, built 1930s, operable, almost passenger ready

Off site, but applicable equipment

NYNH&H #C-618 NE-6 steel caboose (close but currently off site), brakes, paint and (metal) sill rotted
NYNH&H 40' 2 bay Hopper, ???
40 foot wood sheathed Boxcar, bright yellow, not sure of RR, 1920s vintage, steel center beam, major restoration

So basically we will be able to make 2-3 freights, and a passenger consist for photos and if we ever find a NH Steamer a second passenger set since I don’t think the wooden coaches ever ran behind the FL-9.

You may hear of a photo freight and possible photo passenger consist event this upcoming season, from us, and almost definitely another night photo shoot.

Regards,

Rich Cizik
MoW Foreman
Ct Eastern RR Museum
55 Bridge St
Willimantic, Ct 06226
www.cteastrrmusuem.org
rcizik5519 at earthlink dot net
Author:  pm-man [ Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Once again, CERM!
WOW, once again CERM blows me away. I have GOT to get out and see you guys! Is there anything you guys CAN'T do???? From rebuilding roundhouses from scratch to be able to do that many period freights --- Man, just amazing.


TJG
Author:  Bob Kutella [ Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Seems odd... (Continuation of "period photo freight
Loco-caboose matched sets may not be as rare as implied. At IRM (I may miss some) these come to mind:

IT diesel or electric loco, steel caboose.
CNW first generation diesel, three cabooses, wood and steel.
MILW - many diesels to choose from, three cabooses
GTW steam and diesel, wood caboose.
CB&Q many choices of steam or diesel, two cabooses.
UP steam and diesels. steel caboose.
Rock Island steam, transfer caboose.
ATSF steam, wood caboose.

Also have some North Shore cabooses, but wonder if they might have been run behind the MD motors -doubtful.

Posing of many of these locos would be required until they are restored, but we also have some pairs of locos/cabeese which can and do operate. I expect we could match up over two dozen 'correct' combinations of head end, tail end sets, and with of course many freight cars to choose from.

Bob Kutella
Author:  Erik Ledbetter [ Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Seems odd... (Continuation of "period photo freight
And the B&O Museum can put together appropriate diesel-caboose pairs for B&O and for Western Maryland in multiple combinations--they have 6 or 7 serviceable hacks and as nearly as many operable B&O or WM diesels.
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Seems odd... (Continuation of "period photo freight
Operable, maybe, but don't count on them actually operating. The only one I've seen operating of late is the orange CSX 9699/B&O 3802; I'm not certain what the exact status of the rest of the fleet is, but I've seen PM 11, B&O 6607, and WM 236, and maybe others, operating sometime in my life. I doubt at the moment that they are able/willing to fire up any of the others; they supposedly bought the ex-Blue Mountain & Reading SW7 just to use as an expendable shop switcher, so they wouldn't HAVE to use the "museum collection" locos as switchers. An intelligent preservation and curatorial move, of course--but that does nothing towards our "photo freight" objective.

This is not a slap at the B&O Museum. As far as I know, all their diesels and at least some of their steamers COULD be made to move under their own power (well, maybe not CNJ 1000 or B&O 51, but.....). But why bother, unless someone's waving BIG bucks at them for another movie project? (Quick, somebody write a best-selling children's book based on a C&O Allegheny!!!!)
Author:  Ted Miles [ Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Seems odd... (Continuation of "period photo freight
The question of cabooses is interesting. I think it is getting to be enough years since that dreaded End of Train Device put them out to pasture that it is getting hard to find them on railroad property.

With so many sold off even railroad museums are not finding them as easy as it once was.

Especially if you are talking about wooden cars. Both the Long Island Railroad Museums recently, make that 3 or 4 years ago, each got a wooden car. But in aech case they came from other museums not the LongIsland Railroad itself.

There is nothing sadder than a caboose with all its windows plated over because the railroads were to cheap to put safety glass in them to protect thecrews from rock throwing kids.

if you really want to have fun, try finding a caboose from an Interurban rail line. Some of those movved a lot of freight but the cabooses are quite rare.

Ted miles
Author:  Ted Miles [ Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Once again, CERM!
PM-Man,

Another one you should put on your list is the Colorado Railroad Museum. They built a 5 stall Round House which has a turn takle in front with a draw track so they can use it either for narrow or standard gauge cars.

It is currently full of restoration projects.

Hope the folks in Connecticut can get their doors and windows in soon so they can use that roundhouse for some railroad equipment.

Ted Miles
Author:  Ted Miles [ Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Seems odd... (Continuation of "period photo freight
Bob,

I should hope so! The Illinois railway Museum has the largest roster of equipment of any museum in the United States!

The last time I looked at your web site there were some new pictures of I think a Milwaukee Road caboose that had just been restored and repainted. The car looked wonderful!

Did the North Shore or the South Shore use any cabooses?

Oh Yes, with three responces I like cabooses!

Ted Miles
Author:  Frank Hicks [ Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: interurban cabooses
Ted Miles wrote:
Did the North Shore or the South Shore use any cabooses?


Both companies did, and IRM actually owns two North Shore wooden cabooses - 1001 and 1003. Both are in fairly good condition but neither is operational per se. I believe there's also a South Shore caboose in the park in Hammond, IN along with the Nickel Plate Mike, and probably more elsewhere. It's too bad no Chicago Aurora & Elgin cabooses were saved. Those had third rail beams and electric lights, stoves and refrigerators. Talk about traveling in style!
Author:  Bob Kutella [ Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interurban (and other) cabooses
Yes, the CNS&M used cabooses and we have two of 'em. We tried for a South Shore caboose but were unsuccessful at the acquisition.

Another interurban caboose on hand is a steel bay window job from the Illinois Terminal.

Cabooses have fared pretty well at IRM in recent years with pretty much complete restorations done on MILW 01984, CB&Q silver steel cupola caboose, IC 9792 (one time Santa caboose), CNW 10304 wood bay window, BRC 223, and the exterior only (so far) of CGW 601.

Bob Kutella
Author:  JamesKissinger [ Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: interurban cabooses
The South Shore Caboose in Hammond is missing it's roof. It looks OK from the road, but is really a shell. The Mike was sold to an individual who has not yet moved it away from the Civic Center area yet, not sure if the caboose was supposed to leave with it or not. In other words, it is probably available.

James Kissinger
Author:  Dennis Storzek [ Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interurban (and other) cabooses
Bob,

What happened to the old museum "office car", CNS&M 1004, the caboose that had it's interior stripped to make it one big room?

The other two are CNS&M 1002, which the railroad had "de-cupola-ed"while still in service, but which used to have an intact interior, except for an added double bunk (which could come out) and CNS&M 1003, the car that still was intact with its cupola.
Author:  Bob Kutella [ Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interurban (and other) cabooses
<<What happened to the old museum "office car", CNS&M 1004, the caboose that had it's interior stripped to make it one big room? >>


Well, shore enough it does not appear on the IRM website roster. A mystery to me also. And many fond memories of sleeping over in that car on Army cots during below zero winter nights. (Often the same temperature inside as outside - BUT we were in a caboose!!) Also fondly referred to as the Union Hilton, Room 1004.

Bob Kutella
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