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The historic Bethlehem Steel mill and rail sites in Bethlehem, PA are going to be home for a slots casino.

So much for respecting historic sites. Nice work, PA.

Article: http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-a1_ ... slocal-hed



Rob Davis

To clarify the situation for those not familiar with the massive former Bethlehem Steel site, it should be noted that the casino site is slated to be in the former Ore Yard. Except for a 575 foot long ore bridge at the south end of the Ore Yard facing Daly Avenue, the Ore Yard land has long been cleared out and is pretty much empty. Under the original Bethlehem Works plan, this area beyond the ore bridge was going to be a parking lot, so a casino on the same spot should not compromise any historic structures.

Hi Mike,

You know I have tremendous respect for the effort your group is putting forth in Bethlehem, and I agree with you that the casino on the site in question won't impact any structures directly, however my concern is less about direct effect than indirect effect.

Reading an article about our beloved mill and seeing developers involved who are excited about The Venetian in Las Vegas makes my skin crawl.

I've lived this before, 25+ years ago as a kid regarding Atlantic City when gambling was going save the town (it hasn't) and 20 years ago when efforts to revitalize Scranton turned into bulldoze downtown. Look at the photos of the police station below. They are still chipping away.

I fear that full-on Vegas-style development in Bethlehem will open a direct path to a place more firey and hot than any blast furnace. Bethlehem does not need to become Atlantic City, and the mill site deserves a better fate than this.

Ugh.

Rob

Casino developers have had a bit of fun in Colorado too.

The casino is probably being built to fail. The developers and the politicians they support line their pockets under the guise of "economic development and job creation" at the publicly subsidized trough, and, after a short honeymoon grand opening period, visitation drops to little and the place goes under in a couple years. At least that's the way these things seem to have worked. Can you actually imagine busloads of people going to Bethlehem for the gambling? Atlantic City isn't much further away and offers much more in the way of attractions if gambling is your thing. Wall Street too.

dave

The Foxwoods Casino in Connecticut began as a native american-run bingo hall. It's now the worlds largest casino with something like 300,000 square feet of gaming space. Maine recently voted down a Foxwoods-like initiative.

In this day and age I can't imagine what, other then gambling (er. 'gaming'), would be able to create 'profit' or at least a political economy to come anyplace near stabilizing the blast furnaces, gas engine house, and # 2 Machine Shop. Not to mention financing the Museum of Industrial Heritage---all of which are part of the overall scheme. Frankly, a whole lot more folks will come to see the latter because of the former. Maybe enough to see a preservation style railway operatin as part of the site. Difficult to admit, but maybe time for a new attitude!

Hi Friends,

As I was riding up the ex PRR main this morning... looking out at miles of sidings no longer tied in at turnouts... an auto-plant set to close for good in March... a series of factories long roofless... I was ruminating over the Bethlehem casino proposal and figured it would be worth a shot to put my thoughts into words here and see if others feel the same way.

Part of my interest in preserving America's heavy industrial infrastructure is because it generally supported big, loud machines. And I like big, loud machines. I think we all share some aspect of that. While I prefer to see such beasts still earning their keep, I long ago accepted that museums and private collections are just as good.

However, as time rolls on I realize that my interest goes deeper than that.

I was raised to believe in America and the American dream. Perhaps because of the number of railroaders in my bloodline, trains came to symbolize America at work. Preserving and honoring the machine was also giving testimony to the men and women who did as my ancestors did and left their homeland to create a better one for those that followed... I owe my American status to them, as I am the direct - though generations removed - recipient of their risk taking.

When a massive piece of infrastructure like the mill in Bethlehem closes down, I still see the cool machines... but I also see loss. And I don't let anything block my vision of that loss. I see it on all levels, from the guy who made trophies for company bolwing teams up to a country that has lost almost all ability to make what it needs for itself. And I see a loss of my forefathers' dreams as we sit back and watch our advantages slip away.

The idea of turning the mill into a memorial of what was - in my eyes - our greatest moment as a country seems like a fitting second-choice to having it still operating. If it can't earn a living, it can go forward reminding us of when it did.

And now, a casino comes into the picture, to be built in an area that once held the ore that fed the furnaces, supported the sintering mill and lay next to the huge casting shop.

Where the greatest buildings and ships of our time were begun as nothing more than elements of the earth itself and transformed by nothing less than the ingenuity of man... our brothers and sisters will now be pulling levers on slot machines.

In a town where the ability to earn an honest wage in a union job has gone from reality to rare dream, the very land upon which this work was performed will be host to minium wage jobs servicng a clientelle there to do nothing but give their money away.

And I do worry about what country my son will inherit. As we make less and as our standing in health care, education and other social areas declines in comparison to the rest of the industrialized world, I circle back to places like Bethlehem where we still have a chance to preserve a slice of America's lost might.

And I hope through that preservation - along with every other industrial relic and railroad that we can save - people will be able to see what was and they'll look at what is, and decide that we better get back on the horse and start making things again.

A casino on the site of America's - arguably - greatest manufacturing plant is not only a slap in the face to the memory of the mill and it's people, it is a blow to the gut of our country... a gut-bending, double-over kind of blow that can either be a wake up a call, or a set up for the right hook that drops us to the mat for good.

Rob Davis

I wasn't going to poke my nose into this one, but I guess I have to offer a contrary perspective--becuase the points Rob raises go to the heart of what preservation is about and how it can be most successfully pursued.

When I taught US history to college students, it was not uncommon for someone in my class to advance the thesis that America is in decline. It's actually a recurring concept in American intellectual history--in the 1680s Cotten Mather worried that New Englanders could no longer live up to the tough standards of their rugged forebears of the 1630s, and so on.

Anyhow, when one of my students very articulately made the case for decline, I, playing devil's advocate, would ask, "OK, when was the tipping point? In what year did our trajectory peak, our rise stop, and our decline begin? Give me a year...."

I found that was a conversation stopper.

Becuase when you pick a year--1950, 1968, 1972, 1980, you name it, pick your own--and compare that year to now, it is much harder to make the case for pervasive decline. One can point to any number of statistics like mortality rates and any number of less tangible factors like prevalence or absence of racism to make a compelling case that "now" is almost uniformly better than "then."

If I could sum it up, I would say that what is constant in American history is change. We have always been, and continue to be, one of the most malleable, swift-changing economies and societies the earth has ever seen. What is harder to assess is the aggregate "direction" or "value" of all this change, summed together, taken all in all. It's an enormously complicated problem--at any give time there are many trends operating, each generating its own complex pattern of winners and losers.

I will give an example drawn from my own personal past. My paternal ancestors were tenant cotten farmers--my father was born on a tenant farm in North Georgia (the Gainsville Midland Winder branch ran behind their place).

The county and the farm where my father grew up has now been pretty much plowed under for the exurbs of Atlanta. Do I hate to see the farms go? Yes. Do I dislike the new mini-mansions? Yes. BUT--do I want to turn back the clock and be a tenant farmer in Georgia? You damn well better believe not. It was a hard, hard life, and no one who actually lived it has much nostalgia for it.

So what I am arguing against is romanticising the past. I have a great respect for the past or I wouldn't waste my time on RyPN and other activities. I love the way visiting the past is like visiting a slightly foreign country-recognizable in some ways, very strange in others. But I can respect the aesthetics of the world we have lost, and be interested in its rhythms and patterns, and still not want to live it or see it come back, or condemn others to living in it while I watch. For me, "now" is a damn site better than my father's and grandfather's "then."

My opinion after long thought and reflection--your mileage may very.

There's one other point I want to raise. There's a delicate balance in this preservation game between passion and pragmatism. Without passion, we have no moving impulse and get nothing done. But without pragmatism, we have no rational, achievable, economically defensible plans, and also get nothing done.

What makes me uneasy is excesses on either side. I get uncomfortable with any line of argument that seems to be heading towards excommunicating people from the church of preservation if they don't feel sufficient passion about a specific site or cause. On the other hand, I recognize that it is also possible to become so jaded, cynical and pragmatic that you never lift a finger to do anything. So in my book moderation is the best medicine--passion and pragmatism together, each tempering the other.

So how does all this apply to Bethlehem?

I don't know. I am not as familair with the site and the community, the demographics and economics of the region and a lot of other information I would want to have to make an informed judgement. I do viscerally dislike the gaming industry, it's social cost, and its atrocious aesthetics, and I never welcome it anywhere.

But am also made very nervous by an argument which implies that if we don't save this one thing (take your pick, everyone has his or her own), we have somehow all failed America's larger spiritual mission, morally bankrupted ourselves as preservationists, and acquiesced in a long-term trend of American decline.

In short, I would rather see the case for this site made with specific plans and proposals that can be tested for feasability and practicality, than made on the basis of what William Seward would have called "Higher Law."

There is some brightness, albeit a low wattage bulb. GM just announced the construction of two NEW plants (in reality, addition/ replacement plants) in Flint --- one for the construction of trucks, the other for powerplants.

It means, for once, new jobs for a community that has lost nearly 10,000 jobs since 1985. Granted, 400 new jobs over four years doesn't match 10,000, but at least the 5,000 isn't growing; doing this saved about 3,200 Union-paid, American jobs. The steel going in is still probably made in Japan, China or Germany, but at least the car is made here.

By the way -- doing this also saves about 15,000 auto suppliers jobs in Southeast Michigan which feed this plant. including about 1,000 here in Port Huron, at places like P.J. wallbank, Shawmut Mills, and Blue Water Plastics.

Does this stop the flow? Probably not. But the jobs aren't going to Mexico or overseas, either.

Thought you could use a little good news ; - )

Links below:

http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/news/121604_NW_r2_gm_flint_announce.html



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Wow. IMHO, if this thread keeps going with such a great set of topics and with the lack of anger and contempt of most boards, it should be required reading for any kid leaving high school. Seriously. Who'd have given credit to a bunch of railfans ranging from 18 - 100 for a serious discussion of economic, preservation/ historic, and political issues relevant to today?

Reminds me why I LOVE this board.

On that note, depending on what your views are and which way you look, the following news item:

Talk about shades of gray! Jobs stay, plant replaces equipment, but iron goes for aluminum. At least they are keeping some remembrance of whence they came.

TJ

http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/news/121604_NW_r2_grey_iron_aluminum.html

Folks,

The Connecticut gambling casino is a few miles down the road from Mystic Seaport Museum, the foremost maritime museum in the United States.

People are getting off the I-95 and turning north instead of turning south to the museum. History can't go head to head with slot machines it seems.

i don't object to gambling on moral grounds, I object to it because it takes money away frim cultural institutions like the Seaworld Aquairum and Mystic Seaport Museum.

Besides it is an ugly building there in rural eastern Connecticut!!

Ted Miles

It is sad that our beloved heavy industry is a shadow of it's former self. We must realize that our world is changed and it indeed is more global and smaller. This is just the preview of what is to come. More change and faster change so get ready.

Think about how long entire cultures were based upon the farm and how little farming changed over many generations. Once the tractor took over how many farmers could survive by doing it the old way? Everyone had to jump on board and those that didn't did not make it. Suddenly farming that looked the same for a thousand years had a complete change.

Next America we went from a farming to industrial society very quckly. The electric motor changed everything. The industries that did not keep up with technology did not make it.

Now we are going from an industrial society to a information and technology society and that change is going to be even faster. Those who don't keep up with the technology will not make it.

While we morn the losses and celebrate our past we must move to the future. One thing you can count on is change, and that is not always easy.

Tom Gears

Amen.

Just this morning I was out looking at freight cars on a scrap bid. A couple of antiques in the bunch. How many are worth saving? All? Some? None? Important enough to lay my money down?



Reminds me of a book on my father's shelf - "The Good Old Days - They Were Terrible!".

Alan Maples

Indeed it is change that remains constant. Heck, as one whose entire career is based upon technology developed since my birth, I am not willing to argue that.

I disagree on certain tenents proposed in responses in this thread. Overall, there are alarming signs that America is regressing in the post-industrial age. The rise in infant mortality rates is just a hint of the tip of the iceberg.

I challenege the notion that the transition from farm to industry is now being followed by a transition to technology. I counter with the notion that we are moving from industry to service.

A casino (the ultimate service industry) will never do for a nation what a steel mill can. Thus, preservation becomes a tool not just to see what was, but what could be -- not a retread, but a rebirth.

And it pains me that we have gone so far in divesting self-interest that we can't even find a way to keep the creeping vines of the service industry off the ground where greatness once rose.

Look at Homestead, PA. That wonderful steel mill, the site of important labor struggles, is now mile after mile of box stores. What used to happen on that ground built the nation, provided good jobs and gave a firm foundation for the economy. Now, it supports $7 an hour jobs selling things made in other countries.

We'll accept the notion of setting aside a battleground to memorialize the cost of freedom, but as a whole we do a poor job setting aside the ground of our greatest progress. The on-going funding probelms for the Edison lab in NJ highlight that problem.

I admit to an ulterior motive in my support of industrial and railroad preservation... I think we are going to need some of these things again sooner rather than later. I offer the notion that all railbeds, nationally, should be banked in the name of national interest, just as more industrial facilities should be mothballed (I know some are, even some of the Bethlehem Steel assets).

As a leveraged society, when it comes time to pay the piper the cost to rebuild what we wasted may be prohibitive.

So I find myself arguing for two different, but complimentary ideas. 1) Keep the industrial assets, honor them and let them teach... be it a turntable in Jim Thorpe or a steel mill in Bethlehem. 2) Preserve as much as we can intact -- a 20 year old mothballed steel mill may be worth more than we can imagine when it becomes the only home turf alternative. Keep those rail lines in place. As we are seeing now, the single-track reductions of the past 20 years are straining the industry. Save the infrastructure, don't waste it.

These are things I am thinking of while also appreciating the wallop of the machinery we love.


Rob

I think Rob Davis makes a very good point.

While we are not going to stop change (and such efforts cause other undesired problems), we should remember where we have been and keep reminders, both to remind the public and the politicians that this country has enjoyed unparalled wealth. What choices are made now will influence our standards of living far into the future.

Preservation is important. Preserving objects provides the physical reminder of previous technologies, but preserving the "rest of the story"--the people and events beyond the technology is probably our best way to remind future generations of what once was in a socio-economic measure.

I don't think we are ever going to convince everbody that a specific period of the past was "great". People have adapted to change and turning them back would be a major effort. But change does happen; street railways are coming back in a variety of places, commuter rail is growing and freight railroads are hauling more now than ever.

Our purpose in preservation is to keep remind society of older technologies, if for not other reason than to provide alternatives when new technologies cannot provide the answer. As guardians of the knowledge and object of technology, we must insure their survival, even if it may be generations before somebody realizes that some element of it is a "good thing".

I don't consider casinos to be a positive thing. I think they point toward a society becoming inwardly destructive. However, that is society's choice and the only thing we can do is to do our best to preserve what we can and wait. We may not win, but we must try.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT