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| Blount's missed opportunity https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11714 |
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| Author: | bobyar2001 [ Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Blount's missed opportunity |
We all appreciate that F. Nelson Blount collected the locomotives that he did, but in retrospect, he missed a great opportunity to preserve an historic site in-situ, at N. Walpole, New Hampshire. The site became the first Steamtown, but Blount always wanted a larger place to display his huge, eclectic collection, exploring sites near Keene, New Hampshire and eventually settling at Riverside, just above Bellows Falls, Vermont. As a result, the N. Walpole yard and roundhouse became the headquarters of his common carrier Green Mountain RR, and was slowly modernized into the shortline car and engine repair facility it is today. In the 1960s photo below, the roundhouse has the original wooden doors (since replaced with modern roll-ups), and the coal chute and other outbuildings, all since removed. It was probably the best preserved Boston & Maine steam facility extant at the time. Some of the modifications were due to a highway straightening project, which took part of the yard and roundhouse. Others were simply made by the railroad after Blount's death. Imagine though, if he had gotten the yard placed on the state and national historic registers (precluding govermental highway funds from changing it). Blount already owned two B&M steam locomotives and had sought two others, most of which had worked out of the N. Walpole facility at one time. A number of first generation B&M diesels were still in use also, in fact one continued to tie up at this terminal after Blount acquired it. So while we should be happy that his big collection eventually was placed in safe hands (hopefully without a public vs. private debate here), we can be sad that we lost such an intact, authentic historic site that could have been for railroading what Colonial Williamsburg is for early American history.. http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/steamtown ... erview.jpg |
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| Author: | Mike [ Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Blount's missed opportunity |
I would respectfully have to disagree. I'm guessing the site would not have fared very well after Blount's demise. Better to have an upgraded, working facility still around than a poor, barely surviving (or gone)historical site. Preservation is for items business and industry no longer need. By the way, much of Colonial Williamsburg was built from the ground up by the Rockefellers starting in the 1920's. More re-creation than preservation. Mike W. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Blount's missed opportunity |
To somewhat echo and expand upon Mike's posting, there is no shortage of worthy sites for a rail "Williamsburg" and we could have several mostly original candidates tomorrow if funding were available for the purpose - Spencer, Savannah, Altoona, EBT and the Sierra Ry site come immediately to mind. Whether some of these and other opportunities are to be missed, or just mismanaged, remains to be seen. dave |
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| Author: | bobyar2001 [ Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Blount's missed opportunity |
"By the way, much of Colonial Williamsburg was built from the ground up by the Rockefellers starting in the 1920's. More re-creation than preservation." Mike W. Yes, but great care and research was done to try to make it historically accurate, saving the appropriate buildings on the original site. This is something we seem to care little about in railway preservation. We've collected a lot of artifacts, but have seldom attempted to place them in an authentic historic setting. Unfortunately, we seldom have Rockefeller money to do it with today, nor John Jr.s wish to improve the family name after his father's business dealings. Too often, we simply write off historic structures as impossible to save, while raising funds to recreate the same thing where none existed before. |
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| Author: | Kevin Gillespie [ Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Blount's missed opportunity |
Quote: While all of these sites are significant, you are forgetting the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad Museum, the owner of the first mile of railroad track in the United States. Baltimore is the true birthplace of American Railroading.
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| Author: | Dave [ Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Blount's missed opportunity |
Quote: Quote: While all of these sites are significant, you are forgetting the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad Museum, the owner of the first mile of railroad track in the United States. Baltimore is the true birthplace of American Railroading.
I believe the people in Honesdale might take some exception to this characterization. There is also some sketchy history of a small railroad at the John Jervis estate, and a manually powered line used to move granite blocks at Bunker Hill. If we wish to go back further, wouldn't the UK be the birthplace of not only American railroading, but all railroading? After all, we did import the concept (as well as some of the hardware) from there. dave |
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| Author: | johnacraft [ Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Blount's missed opportunity |
bobyar2001 wrote: "By the way, much of Colonial Williamsburg was built from the ground up by the Rockefellers starting in the 1920's. More re-creation than preservation."
Mike W. Yes, but great care and research was done to try to make it historically accurate, saving the appropriate buildings on the original site. I'm afraid not, Bob. The original Williamsburg plan was from the mind of one man, and he didn't think twice about pulling down a ca.-1820 building to replace it with a "recreation" for which the only evidence was a mention in a diary, or a quick sketch in someone's journal. What Rockefeller had planned for Williamsburg was more akin to Disney than to "preservation" as you propose it at North Walpole. If Blount had pulled down the B&M roundhouse and ripped out the turntable, then built a "recreation" of a predecessor road's roundhouse based on the memory of a 90-year-old resident - that would be a pretty close approximation to the original "preservation ethic" at Williamsburg. JAC |
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| Author: | robertjohndavis [ Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Blount's missed opportunity |
Aww heck, add the Mauch Chunk switchback ont he list of "first" claims, and now even another claim is being made for another road in hard coal country as the first! Rob Dave wrote: Quote:
Quote: While all of these sites are significant, you are forgetting the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad Museum, the owner of the first mile of railroad track in the United States. Baltimore is the true birthplace of American Railroading. I believe the people in Honesdale might take some exception to this characterization. There is also some sketchy history of a small railroad at the John Jervis estate, and a manually powered line used to move granite blocks at Bunker Hill. If we wish to go back further, wouldn't the UK be the birthplace of not only American railroading, but all railroading? After all, we did import the concept (as well as some of the hardware) from there. dave |
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| Author: | robertjohndavis [ Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Williamsburg: Can the railroad community really do that? |
Bob, I have a can of worms on my desk. Should I open it? Awww, what the heck... Twist... twist.... Wheeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!! Colonial Williamsburg interprets a slice of time. It works, much like Plymoth village and all similar places, because it limits the interpretive experience to a set time frame. Could you ever get a railroad museum of large enough caliber to do that? To be a Williamsburg of rails (without building replica or generic facilities) in my opinion you would need to: 1. have a full engine facility and yard. Montreal, Union, St. Louis out. 2. interpret a fixed time period. No GP-9's with your 4-4-0's. Baltimore out. 3. display only locomotives appropriate to your facility's in-service days. Steamtown, Spencer out. 4. have easy tourist access. Ely out. What's left.... The one's with the easiest chances to convert are: Jamestown, CA circa 1940 Orbisonia, PA circa 1940 Durango, CO circa 1950 Chama, NM circa 1940 One's that could work with some effort and little rationalization of equipment... North Conway, NH circa 1950 Sites where the infrastructure is left and appropriate equipment survives for a new venture: Newport, VT circa 1948 and circa 1970 Colonie, NY circa 1970 And... I am sure you all have more to list... Rob |
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| Author: | Onder [ Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Blount's missed opportunity |
Colonie? Well a bit too late. It burned only a few months ago. Besides, the ground is contaminated I hear. But it would have made a good starting place. the area is not too yuppified yet, it is very close to an Interstate, it is/was a fairly large site. Maybe Oneonta NY, another D&H shop would have been better but the huge roundhouse is gone as just about everything else including the population of Big O. What is possible is what counts. I think something smallish like the East Broadtop is a better choice. |
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| Author: | jd johnson [ Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Williamsburg: Can the railroad community really do that? |
The Morhead and North Fork Railroad could have also been a good contender for an original railroad with structures etc. It did not have a turntable but had access to the C&O wye in Morehead as well as having another wye of thier own. If number 11 and 14 could come home, the Baldwin sisters leave, and the track relayed up to the tunnel, it could be a 1955 scene indeed. Alas, all the effort to make a museum went to naught. JD Johnson, Morehead and North Fork Railroad Historian |
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| Author: | Ted Miles [ Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Blount's missed opportunity |
Bob, the other element of the Nelson Blount collection that has always bothered is that after he passed away in that plane crash, both the Foundation and the NPS sold off the non-rail parts of his collection. There were farm traction engines, road graders, stationary steam engines and other equipment that I can not now recall. He was interested in all kinds of steam. Not just the way the railroads used of it. He also owned the Edaville RR at one time, so he was also interested in the Maine narrow gauge operations. He was a cousin on E.D. Atwood I think. Ted Miles |
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| Author: | Jeff A. [ Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The Granite Railway |
The Granite Railway in Quincy MA (not Bunker Hill in Boston) is thought to be the first common-carrier type railway in the U.S. Use of industrial tramways in this country predates it by about 20 years. The Granite railway operated from the Bunker Hill Quarry in the Blue Hills, about 2 miles to a wharf on the Neponset River. From here, stone was barged down the Neponset, across Boston Harbor and up the Charles River to the site where the Bunker Hill Monument was a-building. Hence, the railway's oft-misunderstood connection to Bunker Hill. The railway ran on longitudinal wooden sleepers, topped with strap iron and laid on granite cross-ties after the manner of I. K. Bruneel's early design. The line was, of course, horse-powered; granite blocks were winched off the ground and hauled slung beneath the high-wheeled carriages. This is one of the least-known and undeveloped of our rail heritage sites. In the 1950's and 60's one Dick Muzzrole, a self-taught historian and amateur archeologist did extensive excavation and interpretation of the site, an artical referencing his work can be found here: http://ci.quincy.ma.us/tcpl/htm/legacy/gran.htm For a few years in the 1980's I worked for the Boston MetroParks system which owned the site and had several opportunities to view the remains of the Granite Railway and talk to local folks familiar with the history. At that time the park system had decided belatedly that they ought to do something with the site. Their answer was to hire a high-priced degree-encrusted "Cultural Resources Officer" to advise them. This worthy set as his primary task the questioning and "debunking" of everything Muzzrole has done. The reason? Dick Muzzrole's amateur status. He was self-taught, an amateur who couldn't possibly know what he was doing - had probably damaged the site beyond repair. This august "professional" never did anything useful with the site aside from giving a couple of interpretive walking tours and placing a small "interpretive sign in the nearest parking area. When I left MA the remains of the Granite Railway were as overgrown, unknown and unappreciated as when I first saw them. I'd be very interested in hearing from someone in the area if anything has been done in the intervening years. Jeff Acock Adrian OR [/url] |
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| Author: | pvanmeter [ Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Williamsburg: Can the railroad community really do that? |
but Williamsburg is pretty much a Flyuing Yankee without a Winton....it's hardly authentic. In fact right now it's all decked out for Christmas with pineapples. Do you know what a pineapple cost in Virginia in the 18th century? I doubt there were any; then there's the overall landscape design by John Rockefeller's landscape architect, Arthur Shurcliff. |
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| Author: | Jeff A. [ Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | To Clarify........ |
I prefer to do my editing AFTER I post :) ............ The Granite Rwy was built c.1826 which predates the Mauk Chunk line by a year. The first recorded use of an industrial tramway in the U.S. dates to 1807. J |
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