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| What do you tell dreamers https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12259 |
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| Author: | Randy Hees [ Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | What do you tell dreamers |
I have been asked to speak to a local historical society that recently acquired a wooden passenger car body with a local history, and is now organizing a restoration. The group has no railroad experiance. The car was offered to several established museums, who chose not to take it on… While no one debates its history and significance, it is a big, big project. The car is in terrible shape. I suspect that only the roof and center sills have any chance, everything else, walls, side sills, platforms and such will be new construction. They are ambitious. They are thinking of a two year restoration. It’s not clear if this will be a static car next to their building, or on rubber tires to be towed in parades. I will try to talk them out of the rubber tire route. I don't think there is any thought of rail operation. What do you say to a group like this. Do you tell them the unvarnished truth, that this is a multi year project with a 6 figure budget, or to you tell them that all things are possible? Also, this car used interurban trucks, to allow it to be converted to electric operation at a later date. They are most likely Brills, maybe 7’ wheel base, probably 33" wheels. Is there anything that would work as a “will fit†|
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| Author: | wilkinsd [ Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What do you tell dreamers |
Randy and others, I would recommend that you temper their enthusiasm with the honest truth. The step by the group in asking you to come speak with them about it is a good indication that they are seeking preservation expertise, and want a realistic assessment of what it takes to restore a wooden car. Therefore, I think you can be both honest with the group, and still be optimistic. If the car is in as bad as shape as you say, then they probably wont' be able to divide the project into phases, as there will be a lot of reconstruction. I'd maybe try to put them into touch with people that have restored, or are working on restoring wooden equipment. David Woodbury, where are you? The Fort Wayne and Wabash Valley Interurban car at the Illinois Railway Museum is another good example of turning a carbody into a nearly-complete example of a turn of the century interurban. Either way, looks like the group has a big project on their hands, hopefully with your advice and the advice of others, they can pull it off. |
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| Author: | Don C. [ Thu Feb 17, 2005 9:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What do you tell dreamers |
Try having them contact the folks at Mid-Continent or Strasburg. Both museums have a wealth of knowledge after working on their wooden fleets. Don C. |
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| Author: | Brian Norden [ Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What do you tell dreamers |
When V&T coach #4 was restored at Carson City it became a larger project that first expected. Once the car sides were opened up it became appearent that almost all (about 80%) of the upright posts had to be replaced. The Monterey & Salinas Valley combine at Sacramento is almost all replacement. These are some examples of major restoration projects. Yes, be realistic with the people. And encourage them to also be realistic and take the project on a bit at a time. A good approach is to do a survey of the body and prepare a restoration proposal. The proposal should include a time line and also extimated costs. The group will probably need help doing this, but it will help them realize the extent of work needed. I have often seen projects take twice as long as originally estimated. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What do you tell dreamers |
Definitely kill the rubber tire idea before it gains any momentum. Technical knowledge is available for the hiring, they don't need to concern themselves with becoming railroad car experts, they do need to start raising real funds now. Stabilizing and conserving the remains should be their top priority, followed by a real survey. Costs may be much lower by removing the car from California to a region where things cost less - the National City #1 car was done in the southeast, and came in under budget. Nobody in CA would consider doing the work with the available funds. Most critical - have well written, easily understood expectations as to what is actually desired - "restoration" can be anything from conservation, to total replication. It isn't meaningful or productive to talk about different things using the same words. dave |
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| Author: | davidwoodbury [ Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What do you tell dreamers |
I'm right here, actually, reading the above with interest. In my car restoration life, I can attest to the difficulty, expense and length of time it takes to do one of these especially when you have to teach yourself as you go. In my locomotive restoration life (ex-B&M 494), I can attest to the difficulties of working in a group, some of whom at least have unrealistic expectations. At least working alone, the work no matter how complex, is yours and yours alone and you can do it and redo it as you see fit, but there is really no way to walk away. This group seems to embody the worst of both worlds, a mammoth job undertaken by an inexperienced group. I predict the following: get the car and bring it "home". Form a group more or less loosely affiliated. Fall on the car the first Saturday throwing away the rotted parts which they will later regret doing. Plan to return the next weekend when half the people will have something else better to do and so on until nothing further happens, but the car is beyond salvage. I would take the leaders by the lapels and shake them into an awareness of the double burden, the restoration and the organization. If that doesn't work, turn them loose. |
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| Author: | John Deck [ Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What do you tell dreamers |
We have undertaken the exterior restoration of a wood Frisco Caboose at our museum in Wichita, Kansas. This project is in its third year but was planned in stages and we did a project time line along with a serious look at the condition of the car prior to starting the project. Total cost will be somewhere in the $35,000 range just for the wood work. This does not count the hours of volunteers doing clean up and prep work on metal parts or the final painting of the car. Be realistic with these people, be honest, but also dont scare them. This type of grass roots project is what keeps people interested in telling the story about railroads. |
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| Author: | Ted Miles [ Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What do you tell dreamers |
randy, I expect that you are talking about one of the two or three Ocean Shore Railroad Bodies that are kicking around the State. They had Baldwin trucks. There are several sets up at Rio Vista, under the Sacramento Northern 1005, 1019, 1020. Glen Guerra is back home in Wisconsin, but he likes California. He can do a coar assessment better than almost anybody. That will give them the real numbers about how to do something good for the car. DO NOT let anyone tear into all that rotten wood! Is has a story to tell; but you need to know how to read it. Ted Miles |
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