The Museum of Transportation just got this plate in a donation. It has the date of Aug 1946. We don't have a copy of the Lima builder's list and would like some help to find out what loco this was from, road name, number, and wheel arrangement. Can anyone help us out?

From the roster in Eric Hirsimaki's "Lima - The History:"

French Supply Council, order number 1195, Loco and tender, C/Ns 9112 through 9191 (79 total) and built to standard guage. Engines road numbers were 1021 through 1100 and prefixed by a "141-R-xxxx". The August of 1946 would indicate that it was of the 1039 through 1066 group.

Wheel - order date
2-8-2 ...... 12/8/45

Dia-stroke - driver - psi - grate -- t.e. - wt on driver - total wt - adhesion
23.5 x 28 ..... 65 ... 220 .. 55.5 . 44500 . 176300 . . . 254000 .... 3.96

Ed

The 141R's were the famous "Liberation" mikados, built for SNCF by all the North American builders to get France back in business after WWII. They worked all sorts of services, including express passenger, and I believe they outlasted the indiginous French steam locomotives.

LIMA 9157 was 141R1066. Into traffic July 1947, written off 1973. The loco's first depot was St Brieuc, in January 1958 it was allocated to Acheres (Paris), January 1963, Le Mans and January 1971, Auray (stored) its final depot. It was an oil burner working all its life on the Ouest region hauling both freight and passenger trains. Auray was its final depot. I do not have a date but it probably was put into final storage there during 1969/1970.

1340 locos of this class were built between 1945 and 1947. Only a few ships were capable of carrying them (Norwegian "Bel" vessels) so there was often a gap of several months between building and "in traffic" dates.
Sixteen locos were lost at sea when the "Belpamela" sank in the Atlantic on 13th April 1947 and one (141R1241) fell into the dock at Marseille during unloading and was not repaired. 1323 locos actually entered traffic.

The 141R's were less powerful than the then current French 2-8-2 (141P), a 4 cylinder compound, after being improved with a Chapelon exhaust they produced about 2700hp on test compared with the 141P's 3300hp.
But they had lower repair costs which counted when steam was in decline.
The last 141P ran in 1968, the final 141R in 1974.

Info from:

"Les 141 R - Ces braves americaines" B. Collardey & A. Rasserie published by La via du Rail

"SNCF Locomotive List 1938 - 1975" Dr J. Davies and published by him

Both books are still available.

Regards,

Jim L.

Here is what Ron Ziel had to say in his book, "American Locomotives - 1858-1949":

Among the most rakish and appealing of American export steam locomotives were the Liberation-Class 2-8-2 built for the Société Nationaldes Chemins de Fer Français (S.N.C.F.) between 1945 and 1947. More than four-fifths of the French National Railways' locomotives had been destroyed, severely damaged or expropriated by the Germans during the Second World War, so a massive infusion of new power was needed -- and fast! The solution came quickly, in the form of the 141.R 2-8-2, 1,340 of which were erected by the three major U.S. builders, plus the Canadian Locomotive Works and Montreal Locomotive Company, in just two years. The French had been among the world's most successful steam-locomotive designers and builders, having created engines that were at once mechanically sophisticated and beautiful in line and form, but the motive-power crisis faced by the S.N.C.F. at the time of Liberation was so severe that there was no time to work on new designs, so a very basic Mikado with medium-size driving wheels was chosen--a well proven concept that was equally able to move heavy freights and hold down the schedules of all but the fastest express passenger trains. So successful was the 141.R type that, by 1951, although it comprised just 15 percent of the total locomotives on the S.N.C.F., it accounted for 30 percent of all engine-miles and handled 45 percent of all freight traffic, plus passenger runs. When the end of the steam era in France neared in 1971 and a mere five hundred steam locomotives remained on the main-line French rails, over four hundred of the active engines were survivors of the once ubiquitous 141.R roster.

From the same book, here is a photo of the 141.R.446:



Question -- I noticed in this photo that the throttle reach rods and compensating lever are on the left side of the engine. Do the French engineers sit on the left side of the cab?

Ed

Indeed, they do sit on the left as do the british and the germans....not sure about the rest of Europe. I have often been curious as to why we (since they did have the first steam railroad) ended up on the right side versus the british and most of europe(and asia come to think of it) on the left. There simply must be a story behind it.

Thanks to all for the info on this plate. With the date I suspected a foreign engine. I've seen a 141R or two while stationed in Europe and they were fine locos.

Mmmm.....

From watching "Machines of Iron" on RFD-TV, the Russians, Chinese and in New Zealand all operate from the right side.

My second question, it appears that the French don't appear use the Whyte system of nomenclature. It would appear that they only count the wheels on one side, i.e. the 2-8-2 becomes a 1-4-1 or 141. Or is this just coincidence?

Ed

Wow, this is the kind of thing that makes me proud to be associated with RyPN. In no time at all the readers of this board came up with an incredible amount of detail in response to what some would consider a fairly obscure question. This is a great example of what we always hoped the Interchange would be.

Ed, Normal European procedure is to count axles rather than wheels. Therefore, a 2-8-2 becomes a 1-4-1, 4-6-2 a 2-3-1, etc. In French, 1218 is a 1-3-3-2................

With apologies to the builders of other European steam,as far as "foreign" power goes,I have always thought that these were the best looking locomotives outside the United States.If memory serves me correctly,a few still exist and at least one is operable. Somewhere I have an in service picture of one at the head of the Orient Express from the 1990's .....