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| Crown Metal Question for Ed K (or anyone) https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12898 |
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| Author: | Stephen Hussar [ Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Crown Metal Question for Ed K (or anyone) |
Ed, Crowns all have headlights, but no visible dynamo. Where do they get their electricty from? Thanks. |
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| Author: | John E. Rimmasch [ Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crown Metal Question for Ed K. |
Having spent three of the best years of my life running two different Crown locomotives, the answer to your questions is this; 24 inch Crown Locomotives have a 12 volt battery electrical system. By looking closely at a Crown, you will notice that the head light is really just a regular 12 volt automobile head lamp. The 12 volt system did a few things. Not only did it provide power for the head light (when used) it also powered the public address system which was common on most Crown train sets. Most Crown train sets included one locomotive, and at least three, but most often four passenger cars all of which contained a loud speaker. The public address system was used (at least by me) to tell people to keep their hands and feet inside the ride. You can almost hear the voice in your mind......"While riding the train today, please keep your arms and legs inside the ride, do not stand up and have fun!" Most Crowns were built as propane burners. The propane burning system was also a 12 volt system. The system contains a thermal coupler as well as indicating system showing the operator the condition or status of the fire. This was helpful as most operators did not like looking into the box to check the fire. In fact, on a propane burner, if the fire goes out, some gas can be left unburned in the fire box. Opening the door subjects the remaining gases to the outside air. The result was usually a large fire ball from the rear of the locomotive and directly into the lap of the operator. These were bad days! Looking at a 24 inch Crown, you will notice that the crew person sits on the tender. Under the seat on the tender are two batteries. Also included in the box is a charger. Most parks would charge the system over night. The over night charge on two good batteries was usually enough to get the locomotive through the day. But, like clock work, when night fall came, and the engine had been out all day, it really put the strain to the batteries by using the head light. A dynamo would have been nice! John E. Rimmasch |
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| Author: | John E. Rimmasch [ Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sorry Ed K. |
Stephen, I noticed after I posted that you were asking Ed K. the question, I thought you were Ed. K asking the question. So, Ed K. who ever you are, sorry for answering out of turn! Stephen, hope this helped, maybe Ed can give more info on the 15 and 36 inch Crowns. John E. Rimmasch |
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| Author: | Ed Kelley [ Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sorry Ed K. |
No problem, John. Glad you chimed in as you went into far more detail than I could have. While you're in on this conversation; I've read about your Cagney (as a side-note, there's also a Cagney article elsewhere within 'On Track') in several places and by location am guessing you're referring to the operation at Lagoon Park in Farmington, UT? I believe in the article I mention Crown constructed a special 2' for Anheuser-Busch with a wider-diameter boiler and a European theme. (done for the company's Tampa and Williamsburg parks), which is one of the two operated at Lagoon (called the "Houston" down there if I recall). I'm curious to find out if, and if so where, Busch operated this locomotive. Of course, Busch Gardens in California (the 'original' by most definitions) was a well-known attraction in Southern California long before Tampa opened up with its then pair of 3' Crowns. I've also got to get this operation featured in the guidebook project I'm working on at some point. |
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| Author: | Jim Herron [ Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sorry Ed K./ Tampa Busch Crowns |
I believe there are five 3 foot gauge Crown locos at Busch Gardens in Tampa. Originally, there were three complete train sets. Another complete train seems to have been bought sometime in the last 10-15 years and then another 4-4-0 locomotive. One thing I've always wanted to know about those Crown engines is why the valves are so hard to set. I've never heard one of them running "square". They sound horrible, in fact. On the good side, the Tampa engines all seem to have Nathan 6 chime whistles which sound nice even though they are always blown very lightly. -Jim Herron |
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| Author: | Stephen Hussar [ Sun Apr 24, 2005 8:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crown Metal Question for Ed K. |
John, thank you! I know I should have left the question open for anyone to answer and I only directed it at Ed because of the recent "Crown" thread below. Your reply was most welcome! |
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| Author: | EDM [ Sun Apr 24, 2005 9:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crown Metal Question for Ed K. |
Maybe 30 years ago, there was a group of three or four Crowns at Great Adventure in New Jersey. What I found interesting was the air compressor. One of the engineers told me that it was a truck air compressor, chain driven off one of the locomotive's axles. Like the battery charging, shop air was used to give it an initial charge at the beginning fo the day, after that the compressor took over. At that time, Great Adventure was owned by one of the Penn Central real estate companies. So.....yes, Virginia, there were Penn Central steam locomotives. Stretching the point a bit, I will admit- |
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| Author: | m3ohwell [ Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sorry Ed K. |
No problem John, I did wonder about this question directed at me. Diesel airhorns are my specialty. Ed K. |
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| Author: | Ed Kelley [ Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sorry Ed K./ Tampa Busch Crowns |
Tampa has four at present (at least three are currently operable); two of which were built for the park when it opened (to a European style, cosmetically-speaking). A third was acquired from Six Flags Over Mid-America (St. Louis), possibly by way of Great America in IL after 1 season. (now painted yellow). The 4th was purchased from King's Dominion in Doswell, VA a short time after Paramount opened (and now painted green in Tampa). The other King's Dominion locomotive wound up at a Christian campground in the Tulsa, OK area; I believe they also have a re-gauged ex-Carbon Limestone locomotive operable. Also, the Williamsburg park purchased the set from Lakeside Park in Salem, VA, and had it rebuilt in theme by the Tweetsie Shops. Two others were built new for the park, also with a European flair. |
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| Author: | R Netz [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crown Metal Question for Ed K. |
I am not Ed Kelley, but I do know about one 3' gage Crown in particular. I ran the one at Legend City in Tempe, Az for 7 years. The engine originally had a very noisy gasoline powered generator on the back end of the tender. I had a Pyle National dynamo that we decided to put on it. We checked with Crown and they said not to as they didn't think the boiler would supply enough steam. However, that was never a problem. We mounted it on the running board in front of the cab on the firemans side and ran the exhaust up the front of the cab. A friend at the SantaFe roundhouse here gave me a 32 volt headlamp and it worked great. We also had numerous nathan 5 chime whistles on it as well as one from a U.P. Big Boy, although it didn't sound too good on only 150 PSI saturated steam. Check the web site at legend-city.com and one of the pictures there shows the engine with the Big Boy whistle and the dynamo on it. The engine also had a 9 1/2" westinghouse air compressor. One of the first things I did after I started there was to re-set the valves as it was very badly out of time and would hardly pull the train up the hill. I was able to get it dead square and it sure made a big difference in how well it ran. |
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| Author: | m3ohwell [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sorry Ed K./ Tampa Busch Crowns |
Opps! Seems we have two Ed K's The second, less important Ed K. |
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| Author: | scrmcurator [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sorry Ed K./ Tampa Busch Crowns |
Jim Herron wrote: One thing I've always wanted to know about those Crown engines is why the valves are so hard to set. I've never heard one of them running "square". They sound horrible, in fact.
-Jim Herron Actually, the ones at Busch Williamsburg sounded pretty good to me last time I was there. Hershey's pair of two-footers sound pretty good to me, too, and put on a nice show on the uphill pull into the depot. I saw one of them stall on that hill one time and thought they were going to throw a rod on her. The worst one I've ever heard is the Internet video clip of Michael Jackson's engine. It was almost physically painful hearing that poor thing. I finally had to turn the sound off, I just couldn't stand it any more. I don't think it's so much a case of the valves being hard to set as it is of the people doing it not being familiar with steam engines. |
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| Author: | Ed Kelley [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Crowns |
I agree with Matt, the Hershey engines (also among the last built) sounded very nicely in square and do indeed put on a little show as they head back towards the depot. I understand the valve timing was screwed up on several Crowns even when delivered new. With proper maintenance and a good mechanic on hand, this could be corrected. Even the one at Knotts Berry Farm was a bit out of square at times (particularly just previous to her last rebuild). Chad O'Connor rebuilt at least two 2' Crowns, which were sold at Paramount's Bonfante Gardens auction last year and moved on to parts unknown (selling with barely any hours on them and indoor storage in the 30k range!). Would've been interesting to have seen one of these up close. |
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