Railway Preservation News :: View topic - Preserving a crane -- worth it?

There is a significant difference between a museum and a tourist railroad. A tourist railroad looks at the practical, how can this item generate income. A museum looks at the historic and educational value based on its mission statement and organizational goals.

I was a volunteer at SCRM years ago (1991-1992) and remember the crane and its location well.

What about (a) moving it via winch and panel track(s); and (b) using it as a static display at Rion Quarry? I understand that your museum's long-term plans for Rion Quarry might include some interpretive stuff, and the crane might well fit in there-picture it on a siding, with a block of blue granite poised nearby, etc.

I can't speak to its operational merits (i.e. if you accidentally derail something, it's worth having a crane to rerail).

Author:	scrmcurator [ Tue May 03, 2005 10:10 am ]
Post subject:	Preserving a crane -- worth it?
I have a bit of a dilemma. SCRM has a chance to preserve an original piece of equipment from the Rockton & Rion -- an American locomotive crane, which was the last piece of R&R equipment used on the property. It's still located at Anderson Quarry. Trouble is, the crane is on a disconnected piece of track that cannot be reconnected to the Museum's railroad for a number of reasons, both practical and political. The only way to get it to Museum property is to truck it. The thing weighs 108 tons, so even though the trip is short it's going to be expensive. The latest estimates are $35K, and they seem to keep going up. The Museum purchased the crane from the previous owner last year. We've done some work on it. First we had to rerail it on the lousy remnants of the track out there and move it out of the former owner's way. It's going to be in his way again soon, so it'll have to move within the next year at the latest. Then one of our members removed the air compressor and rebuilt it -- it now works, but the flywheel/pulley is BADLY cracked and will probably disintegrate sooner than later. We don't have $35K to move the thing. The boom has some issues, but at least one member has said that he's seen worse booms in service (which doesn't make me feel any better at all). At minimum the crane will need some boom repairs, new cables, a new block, and new drum brakes to be useable. Getting it FRA compliant so it can be used to move cars around will take a LOT more work. I figure we're looking at another $25-50K to restore it. I admit that I'd like to have the thing. On a strictly practical basis, it's not worth pursuing -- but the historic value of it being a piece of Rockton & Rion equipment increases its value to the Museum. The cost of moving it is a huge problem, though. I recall another member commenting that "we can't save everything." The increasing problems with getting this crane moved are making me wonder if maybe we shouldn't write it off, along with the money we have in it so far. What do you other rail preservationists think? Is this thing worth pursuing further? Or should we admit it's beyond our ability to save and cut our losses?

Author:	Pat Fahey [ Tue May 03, 2005 11:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Preserving a crane -- worth it?
Well I would say,it is worth saving,,,but for the amount of work you will have to do,,,just too get moved,,,and then too restore it too the current FRA guideline's,,,it mite be better here maybe just too cut your cost's..and let it go??? Just how far,,does the crane,,,have too be moved,,,to get too museum? Is there any way that the museum,,can cut a deal,,,with a mover,,,for a tax-write off???? All I can say is good luck,,,Pat

Author:	John D [ Tue May 03, 2005 11:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Preserving a crane -- worth it?
I was a volunteer at SCRM years ago (1991-1992) and remember the crane and its location well. What about (a) moving it via winch and panel track(s); and (b) using it as a static display at Rion Quarry? I understand that your museum's long-term plans for Rion Quarry might include some interpretive stuff, and the crane might well fit in there-picture it on a siding, with a block of blue granite poised nearby, etc. I can't speak to its operational merits (i.e. if you accidentally derail something, it's worth having a crane to rerail).

Author:	Randy Hees [ Tue May 03, 2005 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Preserving a crane -- worth it?
I assume you have a collection policy or at least a collection goal. It sounds like the crane would be core to that policy or goal (local history, interpreting the quarry operations which were the reason your railroad exists.) It may not be reasonable or necessary to restore the crane to operate. (and like steam boilers, you really need to be careful when working with cranes or other equipment that can lift heavy objects over your head) Yes, it will be a drain on resources. There is a significant difference between a museum and a tourist railroad. A tourist railroad looks at the practical, how can this item generate income. A museum looks at the historic and educational value based on its mission statement and organizational goals.

Author:	Dave [ Tue May 03, 2005 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Preserving a crane -- worth it?
First, thrilled you are actually talking about saving something real of the R&R rather than compromising with its fabric to accomodate Canadian cars in a very non quarry line like train ride. Second, not thrilled that you are asking the question. SCRM is in the business of preservation the R&R as well as interpreting the railroad history of SC. If this doesn't more fit in with those broad conceptual mission definitions than some other things SCRM has previously spent money to do, very little would. Seems a no brainer to me, especially as the process is already well under way what with you guys actually owning it and beginning work on it and all. How about chaining it to a welded rail panel and moving the whole thing on rollers? House movers dollies? Snap-tracking it one section at a time? Disassembling it with wrenches, not torches, and moving smaller, lighter subassemblies for future reassembly? No point making it operate unless doing so would contribute to operations or interpretive mission more than the costs of doing so. Just preserving it is plenty to deal with for now, much less fretting over future questions which may never find their way to being asked. Good luck with this one - well worth doing. Dave

Railway Preservation News https://www.rypn.org/forums/

Preserving a crane -- worth it? https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13002	Page 1 of 2

Author:	John Deck [ Tue May 03, 2005 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Preserving a crane -- worth it?
Your question about whether to save this crane or cut your losses is a good one and I can see both sides of this issue. I have had to deal with this same problem with our local train museum also and its not an easy thing to decide. First thing is what kind of distance are you talking about moving this crane? Second, is this unit in a condition that it can be taken apart to some extent to help lower the weight? Third, have you contacted all of your area crane services and construction companies that have large cranes in their fleet to see if they would help move and preserve this unit? Where there is a will there is a way when it comes to things like this. You will find contractors and crane services have a place in their heart for old equipment like this. I run a crane service and we own the 2nd LS-98X Linkbelt Crawler built. Another source for help is other quarries in the area to see if they are able to lend a hand due to the RR/ Quarry connection. The issue with the boom condition is no big deal. If you save the crane and get it to the point of restoration let me know, I know a good boom re-builder. Just a comment here to everyone on the board when you post a question like this please include as much info as you can as well as some pictures of the object in question. It will help everyone in formulating a solid response to your needs and make this a more productive board.

Author:	pm-man [ Tue May 03, 2005 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Yes -- but lately, but lately no one else seems to think so.
Quote: There is a significant difference between a museum and a tourist railroad. A tourist railroad looks at the practical, how can this item generate income. A museum looks at the historic and educational value based on its mission statement and organizational goals. Ah, but if all our patrons/ town folk/ businessman/ board members/ creditors thought that way, or even understood that tennat of our profession. Glad to know that there are others who still believe it, even if we are few and far between these days. When will people learn that the preservation of history doesn't just happen in a good economy? That its a never-ending struggle, arguably a burdern, for those of us that try and fight the good fight day in and day out? Sadly, I'm afraid stickking to those ideals will do little to help us when the mobs of naysayers, NIMBY's, Handicap Nazi's (those who would rather see a museum or historic structure be torn down, shut down, or sued out of existence for their own benefit than work with the entity), "I pay my taxes, so I deserve everything FREE" smucks, who never will get it, carry the torches to light the fires to burn us all, who simply try and do some good in the world, at the stake, just to prove they can do it. THUD. (Sound of me hitting ground as I fall of soapbox.) TJG

Author:	Jim Lundquist [ Tue May 03, 2005 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Preserving a crane -- worth it?
Most museum's have eaten too much already. Would you be better off putting a $35,000 roof over those pieces you already own? That call can only be made by your organization.

Author:	jasonsobczynski [ Tue May 03, 2005 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Preserving a crane -- worth it?
One thing to keep in mind is that per the operator's manual for an american locomotive crane it shall not be used as a switch engine....shall only be used to move it's self and at most an idler car while on fairly level track. They are not built "heavy" enough in the electrical and mechanical areas of the trucks. That said....if you do get the thing(which I would say is a must as it is a piece of quarry equipment used by the R&R, and rail equipment at that) contact me and I will put you in touch with an industry in Georgia that has a whole wharehouse building full of all dirrerent NEW and good used components for americans....from traction motors to air filters. Also, they have 3 cranes that could likely be used for parts junkers.

Author:	Ted Miles [ Tue May 03, 2005 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Preserving a crane -- worth it?
SCRM Curator, There was some chat about cranes a few weeks ago. Thefolks here noted a lot of good things. If you have to display a quarry work site at some point in your future, then it sounds more like a good idea because you will cover the rail aspects and the quarry aspect at the same time. Do check into the Industry leads that are mentioned above! Ted Miles, Assistant Curator at SF Maritime Park

Author:	rev66vette [ Tue May 03, 2005 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Preserving a crane -- worth it?
You bring up practical vs unpractical. I can counter with realistic vs unrealistic as to the goal of acheiving this objective over this piece of equipment. I've been involved in this kind of thing for over 16 years and unfortunately I found that like one of the other posters noted, that $35,000 can probably be used in many other areas. One of the toughest things I found also, was to walk away from certain projects that although admirable, would spread you a little too thin in light of your other obligations. This looks like one of them.

Author:	Jack A. Siffert [ Tue May 03, 2005 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Preserving a crane -- worth it?
Twelve years ago we bought a 1971 built 200 ton Orton crane. We bought the idler and the crew car complete with rigging. The crane paid for it self in a few short years. No history, but a good discision and buy.All of it roller bearinged and interchangeable. We had to let a small brownhoist go to scrap because no one wanted to pony up the cash to haul it. A little local history but not a lot. Pissed some people off. Crane was old needed alot work ,had no outriggers, was tippy and was actually tipped twice with frozen coal in the clamshell. Cranes are handy but as mentioned dangerous if not properly maintained and used. They are also good for the puckering of the henny penny's certin body parts. There are certian areas where the musum and the tourist operations cross paths. Such as an operating museum and the maintenance requied for both operations.(sorry but stuffed and mounted just isn't the same when it comes to things that aren't the only one or 2 left) The cost savings of haveing a operating crane as both interpitive display and useful tool is hard to beat. I would look at the moving costs a little bit closer. I moved a 80 ton G.E. Locomotive from The Golden Gate in S.F. in CA to Lorain Ohio over the road for 38,000.00 including crane picks at both ends. Actual trucking was 31,000.00. sounds like more wieght and alot farther than what you need. Some dissasembly and reassembly was required. Contact me if you need any info.

Author:	Kevin Gillespie [ Wed May 04, 2005 6:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Preserving a crane -- worth it?
I would check with the South Carolina National Guard, the Army Reserve, and the Corps of Engineers in your area. They have been helpful to rail preservation groups in other parts of the country, and could make it part of their weekend training exercise.

Author:	scrmcurator [ Wed May 04, 2005 8:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Preserving a crane -- worth it?
John D wrote: I was a volunteer at SCRM years ago (1991-1992) and remember the crane and its location well. What about (a) moving it via winch and panel track(s); and (b) using it as a static display at Rion Quarry? I understand that your museum's long-term plans for Rion Quarry might include some interpretive stuff, and the crane might well fit in there-picture it on a siding, with a block of blue granite poised nearby, etc. I can't speak to its operational merits (i.e. if you accidentally derail something, it's worth having a crane to rerail). Moving it to Rion is what we want to do. If we're successful in getting it moved, the machine will most likely be restored and then used for light maintenance work. One thing that's been suggested it to get a clamshell for it so we can use it for maintaining the Greenbrier Cut. It'll also likely see use moving rail and such around, probably coupled to our DODX flatcar. It's not a heavy enough crane to use for rerailing stuff. Some panel track leapfrogging will have to be done regardless. It's curently a good quarter-mile east of the actual Anderson Quarry, and the track up to the road has been scrapped out by the current owner of the property. We can't go east with it for a couple reasons, it'll have to come west on panel track far enough to load on a truck. The distance from where the crane is to Rion is about 5-6 miles. The road is hilly and twisty, but fortunately there aren't any bridges to go under (although we'll have to go OVER a few, which with that weight could be a problem). To the person who mentioned moving an 80-tonner by truck, this crane is considerably heavier -- 108 tons. It's lift capacity is 15 tons, but its weight is 108 (because of the counterweight). The boom can of course be taken off, and the turret will come off the deck, plus the deck off the trucks. That's five pieces, which ought to get the weight down to something reasonable. However, that increases the move to at least four truckloads. There are some pictures of the crane in the Files section of the SCRM-List at Yahoo.

Page 1 of 2	All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	scrmcurator [ Wed May 04, 2005 9:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Preserving a crane -- worth it?
Randy Hees wrote: There is a significant difference between a museum and a tourist railroad. A tourist railroad looks at the practical, how can this item generate income. A museum looks at the historic and educational value based on its mission statement and organizational goals. This is exactly why I'm seeking opinions. I agree with the core philosophy you express -- but even museums have to keep the bottom line in mind as well. If you go and spend, spend, spend with no thought to how you're going to pay for all that spending, the stuff will wind up getting scrapped by the bank to pay off your debts and then nothing's been accomplished at the end of the day. This project is borderline to me. I'd very much like to see the crane preserved, but the strain of doing so could jeapordize the financial health of the whole organization. One idea that's occurred to me is to partner with some other organization that maybe has additional financial resources. Any ideas there? The local NRHS is out, they're currently helping restore the old quality shack at Rion which is the limit of what their finacial resources will bear.