This may or may not be of interest to other museums, but I would guess others could offer input on it. Recently one of the more enterprising members of the museum I work at has taken it upon himself to manufacture a display sign for every piece of equipment in the collection, each of a standardized design. The signs are metal sheets with vinyl letters, and look very snazzy. One problem, however, is how to attach them to the cars. We have some cars made of wood, some of steel, some of aluminum; we also have cars in various states of disrepair. There are several possibilities that have been suggested:

-magnets (this sounds iffy)
-hanging them from boards stuck under the windows (quite time-consuming to make)
-hanging them from grab-irons (nice and easy, but not possible on everything)
-nailing directly to the car side (quite undesirable, even in cases where the car's in really bad shape)

If anyone can offer other suggestions for attaching these metal signs to our equipment, I would be glad to hear them.

> This may or may not be of interest to other
> museums, but I would guess others could
> offer input on it. Recently one of the more
> enterprising members of the museum I work at
> has taken it upon himself to manufacture a
> display sign for every piece of equipment in
> the collection, each of a standardized
> design. The signs are metal sheets with
> vinyl letters, and look very snazzy. One
> problem, however, is how to attach them to
> the cars. We have some cars made of wood,
> some of steel, some of aluminum; we also
> have cars in various states of disrepair.
> There are several possibilities that have
> been suggested:

> -magnets (this sounds iffy)
> -hanging them from boards stuck under the
> windows (quite time-consuming to make)
> -hanging them from grab-irons (nice and
> easy, but not possible on everything)
> -nailing directly to the car side (quite
> undesirable, even in cases where the car's
> in really bad shape)

> If anyone can offer other suggestions for
> attaching these metal signs to our
> equipment, I would be glad to hear them.
Why attach them to the car at all? The sign could be put on a movable, free standing pedistal and moved with the car. That way you don't have to jeopardize the historical integrity of the car.

ironbartom@aol.com

> Why attach them to the car at all? The sign
> could be put on a movable, free standing
> pedistal and moved with the car. That way
> you don't have to jeopardize the historical
> integrity of the car.

This isn't a bad idea in theory, and our museum has done this with a good number of cars. Unfortunately, it has severe drawbacks. First of all, while it's doable for a few cars, it would be virtually impossible to build enough sign stands for dozens or even hundreds of pieces of equipment. The few stands we already have are made of steel and are quite hefty; they have to be, or else they'd be destroyed after a while. However, they are hard to make and hard to move around if the car is switched to another location. Thanks for the suggestion, though... it certainly isn't a bad one, it's just hard to implement on the sort of scale we're envisioning.

The few stands we already have
> are made of steel and are quite hefty; they
> have to be, or else they'd be destroyed
> after a while. However, they are hard to
> make and hard to move around if the car is
> switched to another location.

When I still volunteered at the B&O Museum we had that problem all the time; we had lovely signs, but they were a bear to lug around and somehow they never got reshuffled as fast as the yard did.

eledbetter@mail.rypn.org

If the signs are metal, would it be possible to use simple S-hooks (or even those "zip-strip" wire ties), and then hang them any ladder rung, railing, pipe, or grab that's at a convenient height? Wire hooks could even be custom made to hang over window sills or gon sides using heavy wire.
If you don't anticipate having to remove the sign, often you can squeeze the wire hooks shut with pliers to make them more secure.
just a thought

What we did is make a laminated sign for each static car, both inside and outside storage, and use double sided tape to affix it to the exterior of the car. When it comes time to remove the sign, just pull it off and use Goo-Gone to remove the adhesive. Advantage: inexpensive and the sign goes everywhere the car does. Disadvantage: could still lift or stain old/weak paint. We figure on our 'back lot' cars, a mark or two on the paint is the least of the car's problem. New paint withstands this pretty well. Goo-Gone is mild compared to distilate based products.

Trolley Museum of New York
n2xjk@ulster.net

Practical standpoint, the signs should be readily visible and readable but not intrusive should anyone wish to photograph the car. Hard to do in real life.

Curatorial standpoint, reversability - like all changes made by museum staff, the sign should be removable without leaving any differences in the artifact.

Reality is our large mechanical things were designed and built to be changed and have parts replaced frequently just to prevent them from disintegrating over time and some irreversable changes are necessary. A couple nail holes aren't much to fret about under those circumstances in a ragged, rough, peeling coach or boxcar.

Just trying not to lose things is more than enough for most of us not to sweat the small compromises.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

If I knew which museum you were at and the size of its collection it would be easier to visualize your problem. At the Museum of Transportation in St. Louis we have been adding signs for several years and they have been very well recieved by visitors. Some are on posts next to the items, which works well for things that will very rarely be moved. Others are hung from diesel walkway handrails, attached to steel posts that are then clamped to the lower cab handrails of steam locos. In some cases we use smaller paper signs that are placed in the windows of cars. Some are on car ladder rungs and others attached to coach door handrails. We make the holes in the signs to fit the situation. We also have to keep snow polwing in mind when placing them. Having them off the ground helps by keeping them from being covered and hit by a plow. There is no single way and having all the signs made exactly the same way may not be the best idea. The important thing it to make having a sign important to most if not all hands, so they think about moving the signs when an item has to move and take care not to beat them up when working. Positive comments from visitors help a lot to make them be taken care of. Some of our signs are seen at our web site. You may have to look for them by paging through it. We highlight our signs on the "Visiting Us" page near the bottom. Take a look.

Museum of Transportation
rdgoldfede@aol.com

At Orange Empire Railway Museum we use magnets to hold signs on the side of metal sided cars. The signs are usually made of 11" x 17" sheets and encapsulated in mylar with the magnets inside behind the paper.

The signs are made using a computer program and a inkjet printer that will print this "B" size paper. Using a computer, various size and styles of type can be used and other graphics can be added.

Using the magnets, these signs can be taken off the equipment as needed and can be relocated and easily replaced. Are some of the wooded equipment similar signs without magnets are pinned to the wood siding.

Brian Norden


bnorden@gateway.net

> If I knew which museum you were at and the
> size of its collection it would be easier to
> visualize your problem. At the Museum of
> Transportation in St. Louis we have been
> adding signs for several years and they have
> been very well recieved by visitors. Some
> are on posts next to the items, which works
> well for things that will very rarely be
> moved. Others are hung from diesel walkway
> handrails, attached to steel posts that are
> then clamped to the lower cab handrails of
> steam locos. In some cases we use smaller
> paper signs that are placed in the windows
> of cars. Some are on car ladder rungs and
> others attached to coach door handrails. We
> make the holes in the signs to fit the
> situation. We also have to keep snow polwing
> in mind when placing them. Having them off
> the ground helps by keeping them from being
> covered and hit by a plow. There is no
> single way and having all the signs made
> exactly the same way may not be the best
> idea. The important thing it to make having
> a sign important to most if not all hands,
> so they think about moving the signs when an
> item has to move and take care not to beat
> them up when working. Positive comments from
> visitors help a lot to make them be taken
> care of. Some of our signs are seen at our
> web site. You may have to look for them by
> paging through it. We highlight our signs on
> the "Visiting Us" page near the
> bottom. Take a look.

The museum in question is IRM, and I'm the one making all the signs (400+, with about a third of them done so far). I like the signs at MOT, and in fact adopted some of your format, type size, etc., for our use.

The signs are 24"x36", 0.080 white enameled aluminum, with vinyl letters 0.66" (for body) and 1" (for titles), following a standard format for each type of equipment. Also, to help give a clue to those who can't tell a DD40 from a GG1, they follow a color scheme for the lettering.

Diesel--dark blue
Steam--black
Freight--red
Electric--electric blue (of course!)
Passenger--pullman green (of course!)
Work equipment--traction orange

We have, as noted above in this thread, used posts in the past, but they are a major pain. My intention is to mount on handrails and piping for steam and diesel, on grabirons for other equipment, and--if nothing else is available--we'll wing it. But I appreciate any suggestions people can offer.


Kevinmccabe@avenew.com

Good on you for taking on this project. Telling people what they are seeing is always a good idea.

Here at SAFR we use steel signs in porcenin/enamel to do the job. but our ships don't shift around as often as trains.

IRM is over 400 cars! Wow! Don't forget the Bordens Milk tanker. Love that new paint job!

ted_miles@NPS.gov

I believe I used an incorrect term.

Our signs are laminated and sealed from the weather.

If you want to protect a document you will encapsulate it. Encapsulation is placing the document between two sheets of mylar and sealing the edges. The document is not attached or bonded to the mylar; thus, you can take the document back out if you need to. When the edges are sealed the corners are usally not sealed allowing the document to "breath."

Brian Norden


bnorden@gateway.net