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| RR lineside poles https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1435 |
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| Author: | Todd von Kampen [ Wed Feb 21, 2001 6:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RR lineside poles |
Hello! I'm a reporter for the Omaha World-Herald in Omaha NE. I've been intrigued by the lineside signal/telegraph/telephone poles since I was a child in the 1970s, especially the distinctive Union Pacific pattern (short crossbar on top, long crossbar below) that appeared on numerous UP photo calendars. These poles are gradually disappearing in Nebraska along the UP and BNSF lines as fiber-optic and microwave communication takes over. I'm working on a "the times they are a-changin'" kind of story, especially on the degree to which these poles fit into railroad lore and defined the landscape in the last century. I see people make use of the crossbars for other purposes (like mailboxes), so I suspect others find them as fascinating as I did. If someone has a lot of information and-or a Web site on this subject and would be willing to be part of a story, please contact me by separate e-mail and include a phone number so I can call you. Thanks! Todd von Kampen Omaha World-Herald Omaha NE (402) 444-1533 or 800-284-6397, ext 6533 todd.vonkampen@owh.com todd.vonkampen@owh.com |
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| Author: | Randy Hees [ Wed Feb 21, 2001 10:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RR lineside poles |
When the Pacific Locomotive Association, operators of the Niles Canyon Railroad (Southern Alameda Co. near San Francisco) developed their general plan for the line, it included amoung many other things) a section on the historic pole lines, and possibilities for preservation. "There remain in the canyon today many remnants of the Southern PacificÂ’s signal and communications systems. Included are telephone and telegraph lines, phone booths, signal bases and remnants of depot wiring. Communication was imperative for a railroad, allowing it to dispatch trains over the single track line, arraigning meets and avoiding collisions. Though out the lines operating history trains were dispatched by "timetable and trainorder." By this system a published timetable would control all train movements, except when modified by written train orders. These train orders would have been transmitted to telegraphers located at various stations via track side telegraph lines, for distribution to the train crews. Most sidings, including those at Dresser and Farwell would have been equipped with telephone booths to allow train crews to directly contact the dispatcher. Several of the later concrete telephone booths survive, and should be preserved. A telegraph line was installed, as required by the railroad act of 1862, during the lines construction in 1865-1869. Over time many individual telegraph circuits were installed, each requiring two wires. Typically there would be separate circuits for local train dispatching, for talking, and for maintenance of way use along with emergency and management circuits. The telegraph lines were replaced by telephones starting just after the turn of the century, although some telegraph lines survived until after 1950. Today there are two sets of telegraph or communication lines along the right of way, apparently, one for railroad use and the other for commercial telegraph use. Both are abandoned, and both are deteriorating. Some poles have been removed by the PLA as hazardous. The commercial line is distinguishable by its use of square telegraph poles. It is unlikely that any of the original telegraph wire remains, having been supplanted by modern telephone wires. Any remnant telegraph lines would be identifiable since they would have used iron wire, while telephone lines use copper. Efforts should be made to document and preserve at least a representative section of these telegraph lines. Southern Pacific practice called for installing the telegraph wires on one side of the pole, and signal wires on the other, or isolating the signal circuits on a separate pole line, usually on the opposite side of the tracks from the communication circuits." Randy Hees hees@ix.netcom.com |
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| Author: | Keith Albrandt [ Thu Feb 22, 2001 2:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RR lineside poles |
You may find this interesting...Interstate Commerce Commission Valuation record for the Nevada Northern Railway, dated 30 June 1917. Telegraph & Telephone Equipment: Pole Lines 3869 20' Sawn Cedar, Class C -poles @$1.94 each 386 Other Poles @ $1.94 each 3879 20' Earth Settings @ $1.65 each 376 other settings (total $971.00) Aerial Wire #8 B.W.G., E.B.B. Gal. Iron, 146.80 miles @ $26.03/mile #12 B.W.G., E.B.B. Gal. Iron, 148.43 miles @ $14.46/mile Sorry I don't have more info, but that represents my entire knowledge database on lineside poles! Nevada Northern & Railroads of White Pine County kalbran1@san.rr.com |
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| Author: | Jim Lundquist [ Thu Feb 22, 2001 2:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RR lineside poles |
The telegraph lines were in daily use on the San Diego and Arizona Eastern Railway in San Diego until the late 1970's. The fact that train orders were given in two countries speaking different languages made morse code a better choice for the railroad (operating in San Diego County and Baja California, Mexico). Alas - most poles and wires are now down - thru trains stopped running in 1977 - for the most part. JimLundquist55@yahoo.com |
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| Author: | Frank Reese [ Thu Feb 22, 2001 2:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RR lineside poles |
> A telegraph line was installed, as required > by the railroad act of 1862, during the > lines construction in 1865-1869. Over time > many individual telegraph circuits were > installed, each requiring two wires. > Typically there would be separate circuits > for local train dispatching, for talking, > and for maintenance of way use along with > emergency and management circuits. All of the railroad and commercial Morse telegraph lines that existed in the East were one wire, grounded circuits. What was the necessity for two-wire telegraph circuits? Frank frankr@ieee.org |
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| Author: | EdSinclair [ Thu Feb 22, 2001 7:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RR lineside poles |
I have always been interested in railroad lineside equipment. Gone are the days where one could identify the railroad right of way he was looking at by the pole lines, signals, relay cases, etc. Even some crossing gates were unique. It would be great if some of the operating museums could include poles and signaling systems for a true representation of what railroading was really lige in the "steam" era. A few miles of some nice SP/UP lower quadrant type B semephores would be nice. Oh well dream on. EdSinclair@telmarnt.com |
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| Author: | Todd von Kampen [ Fri Feb 23, 2001 12:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RR lineside poles |
> I have always been interested in railroad > lineside equipment. Gone are the days where > one could identify the railroad right of way > he was looking at by the pole lines, > signals, relay cases, etc. Even some > crossing gates were unique. It would be > great if some of the operating museums could > include poles and signaling systems for a > true representation of what railroading was > really lige in the "steam" era. A > few miles of some nice SP/UP lower quadrant > type B semephores would be nice. Oh well > dream on. Ed: Thanks for your post ... it sounds like you see the same things in lineside poles that I have for years. Growing up along the UP mainline in Nebraska, I was always intrigued by UP's distinctive pattern for its poles ... shorter crossbar on the top, longer crossbar on the bottom, with the insulator "teeth" decreasing in number in between towns and increasing (as did the number of crossbars) as the line approached the towns. Also, for some reason, the top crossbar's two teeth generally were closer to the pole in western and central Nebraska as far as about Gibbon, but were farther apart east of there. The crossbar and teeth patterns looked like faces to me, but that's what happens when you're a little kid with time to kill on long drives to the grandparents' houses. I did some poking around on the Internet the other day looking for sites on lineside poles, but didn't find much. I'm also not too sure about the actual terminology. When you speak of "SP/UP lower quadrant type B semaphores," are you speaking of the distinctive pattern I described above? Or is that a different type of signal? I probably will speak with the railroad people about the other types of signal equipment, but I plan to focus on the lineside poles because they were the most constant, visible symbol of the railroad to the uninitiated. (They also appeared in countless photos on UP calendars, which have been widespread in Nebraska for years.) Appreciate any input you can give me. If you also happen to know any experts in the subject who would be good for me to call, please pass along their names and e-mail and/or phone number. Thanks! Sincerely, Todd von Kampen Southeast Nebraska Reporter Omaha World-Herald (402) 444-1533 800-284-6397, ext 6533 todd.vonkampen@owh.com |
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