Hi all,

What's a good paint that someone can paint a rusty rail car with that is relatively inexpensive and easy to apply that someone on a college budget could buy that would look halfway decent and last longer than a year?

Thanks,

Stuart

Updated!! Frisco 1506
gnufe@apex.net

Sorry, Stuart, the life expectancy of the paint job is directly proportional to the quality of the prep work. The best paint won't last of you cut corners there. There will be no easy application over rust withour prepping first.

Dave

lathro19@idt.net

Rustoleum damp proof red primer is about the best you can do. I wirebrushed some rusty steel surfaces and applied just that primer about 10 years ago on a hot metal car and its still intact, although the rust is sprouting through the coating. If I would have given it a topcoat of Rustoleum that would not have happened.

I seem to have much better luck painting thick steel (1/2" or thicker) surfaces than thin sheet metal, with regards to how the paint holds up.

BTW, that car is in the snowbelt in northeast Ohio.

rickrailrd@aol.com

I agree with both of the previous postings. At IRM, what we would probably do with such a car is to ascertain what needs to be done in the way of surface prep. If there is little or no paint left on the car - i.e., it's just rusty - then the best thing to do would be to use an electrical wire-wheel to smooth down the surface. I highly suggest one made by DeWalt. Once you've wire-wheeled away the rust, paint it with Rustoleum damp-proof red ("rusty metal") primer. We've found that this stuff works on just about everything, including wood. You'll probably want to put two coats of primer on the car, and then put at least two coats of finish paint on. Use oil paint - we've had people try to use latex and it comes out looking absolutely horrible.

Good luck!

Frank Hicks

> Rustoleum damp proof red primer is about the
> best you can do. I wirebrushed some rusty
> steel surfaces and applied just that primer
> about 10 years ago on a hot metal car and
> its still intact, although the rust is
> sprouting through the coating. If I would
> have given it a topcoat of Rustoleum that
> would not have happened.

We like Rustoleum too but for a really rusty piece, we've been using a product called Conquest. It's an mild acid based primer that bonds with and through the rust and we haven't had any problems with applying an enamal topcoat.

ironbartom@aol.com

It is an outstanding idea to identify the type of finish coat very early in the project before you put down any primer you don't want to later strip off again, or etch, or whatever. Once you start the work don't quit or stall part way through it or you may ahve to begin all over. There are serious compatibility issues between paint manufacturers and oil based paints (especially the popular Rustoleum fish-oil damp proof red primer) and numerous enamels and, doubly especially, the high-gloss long-lasting epoxy or other dual-system paints. If you plan beforehand and avoid errors they can all work together with ample advance knowledge. The base coat will determine the final result so be very prepared to spend several thousands of dollars and perhaps hundreds and hundreds of hours getting a good quality paint job or you will not like the result and it will quickly revert to an unsatisfactory appearance and preserve nothing. Without adding expensive additives and proper mixtures and prep work, and even topcoats, enamel paints will fade. Many pigments fade quicker than others. The bad news is that most likely any paint you put on with a "college budget" will probably only merely hide the still active rust process, make you feel good for a month or two, and not help preserve your rail car.

Hi All,

I just want to make a couple clarifications. I do plan on scaling the car as I don't have the cash to sandblast it. I'm not looking for a professional job, just something I can do to it to make it look better than it does and combat the effects of rust. Preparation is everything to a finish, so I know it's not going to come out looking like a million bucks unless I spend that much on it. I was wondering what type of paint you all like and use and a general price for it and hardener. If I was really desparate I could hit the sides of it with POR-15 or something, but I don't think that would look very good. I do appreciate the help and suggestions and welcome anymore that you'd like to make.

Stuart

Frisco 1506
gnufe@apex.net

The bad news is that
> most likely any paint you put on with a
> "college budget" will probably
> only merely hide the still active rust
> process, make you feel good for a month or
> two, and not help preserve your rail car.

I do not agree. I have firsthand evidence of the suitability (10 years and counting) of the Rustoleum damp proof primer and Rustoleum enamel combination over wirebrushed rusty metal. I think the one other factor that has helped my finish maintain its appearance for a decade is that it is out in the open, rain water quickly runs off of it and there are no trees to prevent sunlight from reaching the car.

I also feel there are different levels of paintjobs in rail preservation, and all have their place. A wire wheel and a couple hundred dollars worth of rustoleum will give a suitable paint job that will last a few years and will be much better than unpainted rusty steel. As the level of work involved in a paint job increases costs increase, until you arrive at the museum quality finish with automotive type paints and buffed out finishes, for example the 4935 at Strasburg. Our friend with the original post is rying to achieve what I achieved when I had a meager college student budget to work from.

rickrailrd@aol.com

> The bad news is that

> I do not agree. I have firsthand evidence of
> the suitability (10 years and counting) of
> the Rustoleum damp proof primer and
> Rustoleum enamel combination over
> wirebrushed rusty metal. I think the one
> other factor that has helped my finish
> maintain its appearance for a decade is that
> it is out in the open, rain water quickly
> runs off of it and there are no trees to
> prevent sunlight from reaching the car.

> I also feel there are different levels of
> paintjobs in rail preservation, and all have
> their place. A wire wheel and a couple
> hundred dollars worth of rustoleum will give
> a suitable paint job that will last a few
> years and will be much better than unpainted
> rusty steel. As the level of work involved
> in a paint job increases costs increase,
> until you arrive at the museum quality
> finish with automotive type paints and
> buffed out finishes, for example the 4935 at
> Strasburg. Our friend with the original post
> is rying to achieve what I achieved when I
> had a meager college student budget to work
> from.

Stuart:

What Rick says here is true. Take as much rust off as you can (wire brush or whatever) then prime and paint. It's more important to get the car covered with some type of coating. I think we have lost, or are in danger of losing, a lot of preserved rail equipment because we hold off until we can "do the job right." In the meantime, the car (or whatever) continues to rust away. The railroad themselves weren't that fussy. Do it! And as soon as you can. Have fun!

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum)


midlandblb@cs.com

> I do not agree. I have firsthand evidence of
> the suitability (10 years and counting) of
> the Rustoleum damp proof primer and
> Rustoleum enamel combination over
> wirebrushed rusty metal. I think the one
> other factor that has helped my finish
> maintain its appearance for a decade is that
> it is out in the open, rain water quickly
> runs off of it and there are no trees to
> prevent sunlight from reaching the car.

Well, this is interesting. I agree with almost everything you say, but I was surprised you think sunlight is a good thing. I would have said that direct sun is an enemy of almost any finish, certainly on wood, perhaps to a lesser extent on metal. Ultimately, the only effective way to preserve a finish is to store the equipment inside. This has the obvious advantage of keeping off rain and snow, but it also keeps off the sun. I'd think this is almost as important. And if a car is stored in an east-west position, doesn't the south side look worse faster?

Maybe other people's experience is different. I'd like to know.

Rick Rowlands wirebrush and rustoleum plan works as well as any cheap and quick job I have done and believe me there have been plenty. Perhaps some rust converter on the worst spots might also be in order?

BTW, just finished a proposal for a fast and cheap cosmetic job on a seriously damaged car which alone will cost $20,000.00. Hope we will be doing it among others of higher quality this summer in Savannah.

Dave

lathro19@idt.net

> Well, this is interesting. I agree with
> almost everything you say, but I was
> surprised you think sunlight is a good
> thing. I would have said that direct sun is
> an enemy of almost any finish, certainly on
> wood, perhaps to a lesser extent on metal.
> Ultimately, the only effective way to
> preserve a finish is to store the equipment
> inside. This has the obvious advantage of
> keeping off rain and snow, but it also keeps
> off the sun. I'd think this is almost as
> important. And if a car is stored in an
> east-west position, doesn't the south side
> look worse faster?

Which is worse, the degradation of a paint finishe caused by sunlight and UV rays or the longer peoiods of time a car is exposed to most damp conditions by being in the shade. I would choose sunlight. Also, you bring up a good point that if you can orient your equipment north south so that the sun will shine on both sides of the car and both sides will be equally exposed. You can always scrape the moss off the north end of the car and repaint that small area in less time and effort than one of the long sides.



rickrailrd@aol.com

> Well, this is interesting. I agree with
> almost everything you say, but I was
> surprised you think sunlight is a good
> thing. I would have said that direct sun is
> an enemy of almost any finish, certainly on
> wood, perhaps to a lesser extent on metal.
> Ultimately, the only effective way to
> preserve a finish is to store the equipment
> inside. This has the obvious advantage of
> keeping off rain and snow, but it also keeps
> off the sun. I'd think this is almost as
> important. And if a car is stored in an
> east-west position, doesn't the south side
> look worse faster?

> Maybe other people's experience is
> different. I'd like to know.

Randall:

You sure are correct Sir! For example, we have an Erie-Lackawanna bay window steel caboose painted in the E-L's striking maroon and gray bands separated by yellow stripes. Beautiful! BUT...on the south side (we ARE an east-west "railroad") the paint has faded badly. The north side still looks good. But what side do most folks want to photograph? The sunny side of course! What would help would be a turntable or a wye so that we could at least turn the car so that at least the fading would be more even. Now if I could just get the museum to install our turntable......


midlandblb@cs.com

Getting equipment under cover is very important to the conservation of the cars and their paint. At Orange Empire we noticed that once cars went under cover the paint and wood deterioration just about stopped. We had one restored car that usually lived at the west end of a open carbarn; its end sash begain peeling before anything else. Then we got doors on the building and repainted the sash; no more problems with that car.

If you can't get the car inside, then you can:
1) give it a good coat of paint
2) make sure the roof is water tight
3) tarp it. We buy a good grade of tarp and it lasts several years. A cheap tarp may last only one year.

I feel that a quick paint job can improve appearances and help save the equipment. Some people call these "mop" or "broom" paint jobs. Others have called these "20-foot" paint jobs because they look okey at 20 feet or more distance. Then you can always go back later and do a better job.

Brian Norden

bnorden@gateway.net

> I feel that a quick paint job can improve
> appearances and help save the equipment.
> Some people call these "mop" or
> "broom" paint jobs. Others have
> called these "20-foot" paint jobs
> because they look okey at 20 feet or more
> distance. Then you can always go back later
> and do a better job.

I heartily agree with this. Giving a piece of equipment a quick-and-dirty paint job doesn't just help to protect it; sometimes more importantly, it improves the appearance of the car and the museum. At IRM we call these "dip jobs" or "50-50" paint jobs - it should look good from 50 feet away while the car is going 50 mph!