The Roundhouse Railroad Museum in Savannah, GA is working on producing a new short film for interpretive purposes to be shown in a small theatre on site. We are looking for archival footage of a busy roundhouse in the days of steam which is either in public domain, or which we can get permission to use for this purpose. Nothing from the Savannah roundhouse has come to light so any generic roundhouse footage would be fine.

Credit will be given and there may be a tax break for the donor of the rights to use the footage.

Anybody have any ideas?

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

Dave,
Like yourselves, our organization is developing a roundhouse museum. Ours will focus on the relocated six stall "San Jose" roundhouse in California.

I have an unedited 20 minute video tape, no sound, made from home movies shot in the early 1950's of actitivity at our roundhouse. On this tape, there are limited shots of actual non-descript roundhouse activity as most of the scenes involve obviously lettered Southern Pacific steam locomotives moving on and off the turntable (How would Savannah visitors react to cab-forwards?) Unfortunately, permission to reproduce the tape is hazy.

Since our organization will like to eventually produce similar interpretive film for our museum, I am interested to see the responses to your inquiry.

Regards,
Ken Middlebrook
California Trolley and Railroad Corporation


ken.middlebrook@nsc.com

> Dave,
> Like yourselves, our organization is
> developing a roundhouse museum. Ours will
> focus on the relocated six stall "San
> Jose" roundhouse in California.

> I have an unedited 20 minute video tape, no
> sound, made from home movies shot in the
> early 1950's of actitivity at our
> roundhouse. On this tape, there are limited
> shots of actual non-descript roundhouse
> activity as most of the scenes involve
> obviously lettered Southern Pacific steam
> locomotives moving on and off the turntable
> (How would Savannah visitors react to
> cab-forwards?) Unfortunately, permission to
> reproduce the tape is hazy.

> Since our organization will like to
> eventually produce similar interpretive film
> for our museum, I am interested to see the
> responses to your inquiry.

> Regards,
> Ken Middlebrook
> California Trolley and Railroad Corporation

Why not try one or more of the video producers?
What is your budget for the project?
Greg Scholl



Videos
sales@gregschollvideo.com

> Why not try one or more of the video
> producers?
> What is your budget for the project?
> Greg Scholl

Greg,
The individual who gave me the video tape actually shot the film himself. Many years ago, a video producer borrowed the individual's entire film collection to "assist in cataloging the collection." Upon returning the now cataloged collection, the producer announced that he had copyrighted some of the films. Nonetheless, the individual who shot the film is upset and he does not know "what" exactly in his collection has been copyrighted by the producer.

Acknowledging the historical significance of his film toward our museum project, the individual made one videotape for me by setting up a video camera in front of his screen in his living room. As he handed the tape to me, the individual stated, "if you don't sell the film and use it for display/exhibit purposes, I imagine everything should be okay."

Hence, I have displayed the tape a couple of years at our WinteRail exhibit and although many observers inquire on its availability for purchase (NEVER from our organization!!), no one has questioned the permission to publicly display it.

Suggestions?
Ken



ken.middlebrook@nsc.com

Sounds like some not so kind person took advantage of this guy. First I would check with a lawyer to see what rights the owner has. Unless he SELLS the footage he is still the owner.
However, sometimes PROGRAMS can be copyrighted, but unless he signs over the material for use I think he has a good case...But, I am not an expert nor a lawyer. Just my first inclination here.

My suggestion is to first find out clear title to the footage. Once that is done, I suggest a scenario whereby you offer to pay the owner a fee for the use of his works for the kiask, and perhaps work out an arrangement that you can make copies available perhaps in your gift shop. Offer to pay him either a set fee for this in addition to the amount you would allow for the display, or offer him a royalty on what is sold.

Don't feel bad, the best of us get burned by jerks sometimes, and I have been taken as well. We had some stuff licensed to an outfit that went bankrupt. The item was still sold, but we never got our royalties! Not quite fair when the laws favor the unscrupulous sometimes!

When you get the ownership and copyright issue settled get a good transfer of the film done, and return the owner his films, so he has the originals in his possession, and give him a copy of what you transfer at no charge to him. Then he can view this instead of the film and save the films(preserve them further by less use).

Sorry you had such a bad experience with a video guy. If he were in a video producers guild (which we don't have)we could consider extracting him. I don't know all the facts or what agreement the two parties had so I really shouldn't make that last statement. Let me know if I can be of service. Good luck.
Greg Scholl

Videos
sales@gregschollvideo.com

> Greg,
> The individual who gave me the video tape
> actually shot the film himself. Many years
> ago, a video producer borrowed the
> individual's entire film collection to
> "assist in cataloging the
> collection." Upon returning the now
> cataloged collection, the producer announced
> that he had copyrighted some of the films.

I always thought that the original photographer held all rights to their work. The "producer" borrowed the film, and slapped his copyright on them, and then returned the originals to the photographer? The owner of the film got no royalties? As I see it, the producer has no rights to the films, since he did not purchase them, nor compensate the owner for their use. I'm not an expert on these laws, but I would strongly urge this guy to seek counsel about this situation, It seems to me he should be entitled to some money, unless he was foolish enough to sign a release to give his work away. I'd be curious to hear more on this matter...

Russell Underwood

Jay611@home.com

On the surface I agree with you. However if I use footage in my production, I can copyright my production. However, we useually would have an agreement for exclusive or nonexclusive use, and the owner may or may not be able to use it for another program. Here's what I mean. Say you have a great film on NYC Hudsons and want me to do a video. I do so but want an exclusive rights
agreement. The reason is that I don't want my competitor to wind up getting another video of the same thing. That wouldn't be fair would it!
Believe me there are a few owners that have tried this. Generally this is why it is sometimes better to buy the footage outright since there is no worry with ownership nor royalties.

Since we don't know this persons situation, the best course is that he should get a lawyer and have them get the stuff ironed out between the guy who "borrowed" the films and see what agreements were or were not made.

Here is a copyright site for anyone interested. It was sent to me a few days ago, on another matter. I haven't deciphered it all yet!
Will post in next message so I don't lose this one.
Greg Scholl

Videos
sales@gregschollvideo.com

Here it is.
http://www.loc.gov/copyright/title17/circ92.html#105

What got me started on this a week ago was posing the question about old 16mm films that were PR films or old Government films. Can someone make a tape on them. For instance what if there is an old military film on something from WWII that was
made in 1944. There are hundreds of copies made at the time, and now nobody does anything with any of it. When is it public domain! Same for old Railroad promotional films. I have seen some for sale by other Video Producers, and in some cases the same titles by two different producers.
Can anyone give me a simple answers on those!
Greg Scholl

Copyright Law
sales@gregschollvideo.com

However, we
> useually would have an agreement for
> exclusive or nonexclusive use, and the owner
> may or may not be able to use it for another
> program. Generally this is why it is
> sometimes better to buy the footage outright
> since there is no worry with ownership nor
> royalties.

> Since we don't know this persons situation,
> the best course is that he should get a
> lawyer and have them get the stuff ironed
> out between the guy who "borrowed"
> the films and see what agreements were or
> were not made.

The difference is in policies is above. You sign agreements or what have you, to use the work. The other fellow had this "producer"(for lack of another G rated word) help assist in "cataloging his work, not marketing it. However, we do not know the whole story with this guy, and this guy should run to a lawyer for some advice. First visits are still free, are'nt they???

Russell Underwood

Jay611@home.com

I appreciate everybody's difficulties with unscrupulous weasels and share the general disgust. I sympathize with ken's friends problems and Ken's resulting difficulties.

But, to get back to the original question, is there any unencumbered roundhouse footage out there that we might be able to use with legal permission for a short in house interpretive not for sale for profit film?

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

> But, to get back to the original question,
> is there any unencumbered roundhouse footage
> out there that we might be able to use with
> legal permission for a short in house
> interpretive not for sale for profit film?

Your best bet may be to talk to a "reputable producer" for permission to use some of their footage in your in-house film at the museum. Make an agreement to show the name of the film and company in your credits, so that if someone wishes to purchase the film for the content, they will have the title and company name. You may even stock some of the tapes in your gift shop to sell, with a sign "as seen in our film Roundhouse", and a small used with permission note . Would this fly Greg???

Jay611@home.com