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| V & T "Lyon" being built at Strasburg! https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1679 |
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| Author: | Martin Dickson [ Sat Apr 28, 2001 12:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | V & T "Lyon" being built at Strasburg! |
Last weekend at the ARM conference, I saw the V&T “Lyon” reproduction being built by the Strasburg Rail Road. Wow! The running gear is finished, and assembled. Frame, drivers, lead truck, rods, cylinders, pistons, are all together, and ready for steam. The frame is dark green, and the wheels are red, with white tires. The valve gear is about 50% done, but not assembled. The boiler is under way, with the barrel, wagon top, and throat sheet welded together. The various pieces of the firebox are stacked nearby for assembly. The boiler is being built to the ASME code, with welded construction, but with flanged sheets so the firebox corners will be rounded like the original. The mud ring will be riveted in. The Strasburg Rail Road is an ASME code shop, with “S”, and “R” stamps, the only tourist railroad in the US to meet that standard, as I understand. I heard that the owner of the “Lyon”, Stan Gentry, is building the tender himself. This is a great project, and I hope that it is just the beginning of a new era of reproduction steam locomotives built to replace lost originals. The small size of the “Lyon” will make it ideal for easy transport to anywhere in the country for operation similar to the “Eureka” on the 3’ gage lines. The small size also helps to keep the costs in line, thus making it possible for an individual, or a small group to finance. |
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| Author: | Ron Goldfeder [ Sun Apr 29, 2001 2:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: V & T "Lyon" being built at Strasburg! |
I don't know any specifics on this project but would caution anyone from assuming that the small size of the locomotive is closely related to the overall cost of the project. Small locomotives have more machining needed compared to total weight than much larger ones. I first encountered this when doing research on the 1893 Lake Street Elevated Forney loco at the Museum of Transportation in St. Louis. These small locos cost more per pound than much larger freight locos at the time due to the amount of machining needed and their small size, 30 tons in operating condition. Museum of Transportation rdgoldfede@aol.com |
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| Author: | Rick [ Sun Apr 29, 2001 4:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: V & T "Lyon" being built at Strasburg! |
> I don't know any specifics on this project > but would caution anyone from assuming that > the small size of the locomotive is closely > related to the overall cost of the project. > Small locomotives have more machining needed > compared to total weight than much larger > ones. I first encountered this when doing > research on the 1893 Lake Street Elevated > Forney loco at the Museum of Transportation > in St. Louis. These small locos cost more > per pound than much larger freight locos at > the time due to the amount of machining > needed and their small size, 30 tons in > operating condition. Perhaps the total cost per pound would be greater, but the total number of pounds per locomotive would be less, resulting in less overall cost. Of course total cost per pound for a larger locomotive would tend to increase as a result of the limited number of machine shops capable of machining the larger parts required by the larger locomotives, and the size of a shop required to assemble the larger locomotive. That is not taking into account the greater need for smaller steam locomotives for the tourist railway industry as compared to the glut of large loomotives for the dwindling mainline excursion industry. Have any figures been floated around as to the cost of the Strasburg built locomotives? rickrailrd@aol.com |
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| Author: | Brian Norden [ Mon Apr 30, 2001 9:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: V & T "Lyon" being built at Strasburg! |
I have heard the owner of the "Lyon", Stan Gentry, speak at the Nevada State RR Museum's history symposiums. An important part of the decision to construct this particular replica is its small size. Like the "Eureka," it will be easily trucked without extra special equipment. By the way, the original V&T "Lyon" was named for one of the counties that the V&T operated through. Brian Norden bnorden@gateway.net |
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| Author: | Tom Shreve [ Mon Apr 30, 2001 9:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: V & T "Lyon" being built at Strasburg! |
> I have heard the owner of the > "Lyon", Stan Gentry, speak at the > Nevada State RR Museum's history symposiums. > An important part of the decision to > construct this particular replica is its > small size. Like the "Eureka," it > will be easily trucked without extra special > equipment. > By the way, the original V&T > "Lyon" was named for one of the > counties that the V&T operated through. > Brian Norden The original "Lyon" was built by H.J. Booth and Company at the the Union Iron Works of San Francisco. As far as I know, no locomotive survived from this pioneer western builder. ironbartom@aol.com |
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| Author: | Brian Norden [ Tue May 01, 2001 12:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: V & T "Lyon" - Booth & Company |
> The original "Lyon" was built by H.J. Booth and Company at the the Union Iron > Works of San Francisco. As far as I know, no locomotive survived from this pioneer > western builder. I know of no others. Some drawings are in the collection of California State RR Museum. I think drawings for the original "Lyon" are among them. Brian Norden bnorden@gateway.net |
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| Author: | Phil Mulligan [ Tue May 01, 2001 10:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: V & T "Lyon" - Booth & Company |
> I know of no others. Some drawings are in > the collection of California State RR > Museum. I think drawings for the original > "Lyon" are among them. > Brian Norden Interesting. Union Iron Works also built ships and USS Olympia (C-6),laid down at UIW in 1891, is a museum ship at Philadelphia. She was Adm. Dewey's flagship at Manila Bay. So a reproduction locomotive is being built within 100 miles of a surviving original product of the builder. Electric City Trolley Museum Associ |
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| Author: | Tom Shreve [ Tue May 01, 2001 11:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: V & T "Lyon" - Booth & Company |
> Interesting. Union Iron Works also built > ships and USS Olympia (C-6),laid down at UIW > in 1891, is a museum ship at Philadelphia. > She was Adm. Dewey's flagship at Manila Bay. > So a reproduction locomotive is being built > within 100 miles of a surviving original > product of the builder. The Union Iron Works of San Francisco was one of the first large industries on the west coast. It was organized as Donahue, Booth and Co. just before the Civil War to manufacture mining and saw mill machinery. Peter Donahue was one of the principles of a railroad called the San Francisco & San Jose which merged with its subsidiaries to form Southern Pacific. ironbartom@aol.com |
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| Author: | Randall Hicks [ Wed May 02, 2001 1:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: V & T "Lyon" - Cost & Schedule |
I would still like to know how much this reproduction locomotive is going to cost and how long the construction is going to take, if the information is available. |
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| Author: | Martin Dickson [ Wed May 02, 2001 5:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: V & T "Lyon" - Cost & Schedule |
The Lyon has been under construction for about five years to this point. I would guess another three or four to complete. As for cost, there was a good discussion on costs on the Narrow Gage Discussion Group in March. One poster estimated that new steamers would cost about $40,000 per ton. The V&T book says that the Lyon weighed 22 tons. Narrow Gage Discussion Group |
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| Author: | Randall Hicks [ Thu May 03, 2001 9:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: V & T "Lyon" - Cost & Schedule |
> The Lyon has been under construction for > about five years to this point. I would > guess another three or four to complete. As > for cost, there was a good discussion on > costs on the Narrow Gage Discussion Group in > March. One poster estimated that new > steamers would cost about $40,000 per ton. > The V&T book says that the Lyon weighed > 22 tons. OK, thanks. To me, this would certainly seem to discourage the market for repro engines. Unless, of course, you just have to have a particular type that no longer exists. I'd really like to see this engine under construction, though. Do you know whether any rebuilt parts are being used, such as injector, pumps, whatever, or is it completely new? |
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| Author: | Allen [ Thu May 03, 2001 11:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: V & T "Lyon" - Cost & Schedule |
> OK, thanks. To me, this would certainly seem > to discourage the market for repro engines. > Unless, of course, you just have to have a > particular type that no longer exists. In the same discussion (on the NG board) it was discussed at length that the cost per unit would drop significantly by building several identical lokeys, and machining the parts in lots (economies of scale). However, the, ahem, independent nature of our many rail preservation groups, and the wide variations in needs of the various tourist roads would tend to cause problems with arriving at an acceptable "compromise" design. Perhaps a brassbound mogul, or consolidation, would sell best, but it would probably be either too big or too small for many. The other consideration is, good as they are, I kinda doubt Strasburg has the facilities (or inclination) to produce 4 to 10 new lokeys a year. |
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