I had an interesting visitor at the Savannah roundhouse today from Columbus, Ga. Columbus was for a while the home of our 2-8-0, 223.

This gentleman was one of the few citizens of that town that cared about what happened to the engine while it rusted away behind a parking garage until an asbestos leak prompted its relocation to its corporate home in Savannah.

He was pleased to learn that we have budgeted for its survey and cosmetic restoration, and plan to begin that job this summer.

In an ensuing discussion, I was told that parts I had assumed were stolen by vandals were actually the victims of a sort of Municipal Vandalism and had been sold off to other railroad museums by the city.

I will not mention names here, but the areas where parts were reputed to have gone were Tennesee and Texas and New Mexico. Research into city records is now under way to confirm this data.

Parts which have been removed include two lifting injectors, a set of butterfly firedoors, brake valves, bell, whistle, lubricator, pressure gauges, backup light, builders and number plate and various steam valves from the cab.

If you are associated with any entity that acquired parts of this engine, it is no longer a park hulk, and will now be properly cared for by a responsible legitimate museum. Please let us know what parts you have and what you paid the City of Columbus for them and we will repurchase them from you for your investment, and pay all shipping back to Savannah as well.

I do not propose to cast any ethical aspersions here on any organization that believed they were salvaging valuable spares from a useless hulk. I do hope that ethical considerations will prevail now that the situation is not what it was.

Dave Lathrop

irondave@bellsouth.net

> I had an interesting visitor at the Savannah
> roundhouse today from Columbus, Ga. Columbus
> was for a while the home of our 2-8-0, 223.

> This gentleman was one of the few citizens
> of that town that cared about what happened
> to the engine while it rusted away behind a
> parking garage until an asbestos leak
> prompted its relocation to its corporate
> home in Savannah.

> He was pleased to learn that we have
> budgeted for its survey and cosmetic
> restoration, and plan to begin that job this
> summer.

> In an ensuing discussion, I was told that
> parts I had assumed were stolen by vandals
> were actually the victims of a sort of
> Municipal Vandalism and had been sold off to
> other railroad museums by the city.

> I will not mention names here, but the areas
> where parts were reputed to have gone were
> Tennesee and Texas and New Mexico. Research
> into city records is now under way to
> confirm this data.

> Parts which have been removed include two
> lifting injectors, a set of butterfly
> firedoors, brake valves, bell, whistle,
> lubricator, pressure gauges, backup light,
> builders and number plate and various steam
> valves from the cab.

> If you are associated with any entity that
> acquired parts of this engine, it is no
> longer a park hulk, and will now be properly
> cared for by a responsible legitimate
> museum. Please let us know what parts you
> have and what you paid the City of Columbus
> for them and we will repurchase them from
> you for your investment, and pay all
> shipping back to Savannah as well.

> I do not propose to cast any ethical
> aspersions here on any organization that
> believed they were salvaging valuable spares
> from a useless hulk. I do hope that ethical
> considerations will prevail now that the
> situation is not what it was.

> Dave Lathrop

Dave:

You bring up an interesting point.

First of all, let me say that I hope you get ALL of the parts back for your Central of Georgia Consolidation. I think the way you have handled this is commendable; i.e. not naming names. I trust however that you KNOW that members of the "unnamed" museums are regular readers of RyPN. If they are then no problem. You have reached them. If however, you don't know if there are regular RyPN readers for these museums out there, then you have NOT gotten the message to them.

The point is this; many times those of us who post messages here do NOT mention our museum (or tourist line or historical society) connection. In nearly all cases, it makes sense to do so (I, for instance, quite often fail to mention mine.) So my suggestion is a simple one. When you submit a post, or comment to a post, just show your affiliation if you have one. It does not have to be spelled out each time; the initials will do as most of us could figure out what they mean. Just a suggestion.

Les (HVRM)

midlandblb@cs.com

I won't name any names based on hearsay, particularly since the organizations involved are for the most part highly respected and professional operations and passing rumors along without evidence to back them up is not professional.

I hope that those involved will come forward, and if not, and we do find the paper trail at Columbus city hall, private communications will be more appropriate.

Thanks again.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

This story is horrifying. It's even worse when you realize that they were also donated a C of G 4-8-4 (Lima 1937?) which was in a park, and then cut up for scrap in the late 50's or early 60's. Those people must have been brain dead when it came to historic preservation.

kevingillespie@usa.net

> This story is horrifying. It's even worse
> when you realize that they were also donated
> a C of G 4-8-4 (Lima 1937?) which was in a
> park, and then cut up for scrap in the late
> 50's or early 60's. Those people must have
> been brain dead when it came to historic
> preservation.

Spilt milk Kevin. We certainly could have made a good home for the Big Apple. An old story goes that Ben Tarbutton tried to purchase it but couldn't make a deal at a reasonable price as a locomotive, so they sold it for much less as scrap instead.

We can't bring it back but maybe these parts can come back.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

Dave,

These kinds of horror stories seem all too frequent. The term "municipal vandalism" is apt. The late Atlanta historian Franklin Garrett especially loved that term when he referred to the destruction of Atlanta's Union and Terminal Stations, along with other buildings which could have also been preserved.

Locomotive parts are easy to overlook, in the scheme of things, for the establishment, but to those of us who have the rolling stock right here, the events you describe are really not much different than the vandalism and theft reported recently at IRM.

--Malcolm



Southeastern Railway Museum
grinnellglacier@yahoo.com

I guess this kind of story is often told, here in San Francisco we had an SP switch engine in the zoo playground, but the asbestos word came to town and it got scrapped... even though there were two museums that wanted to preserve the engine. The city cut it up anyway.

ted_miles@NPS.gov

> I guess this kind of story is often told,
> here in San Francisco we had an SP switch
> engine in the zoo playground, but the
> asbestos word came to town and it got
> scrapped... even though there were two
> museums that wanted to preserve the engine.
> The city cut it up anyway.

Perhaps the museums would have come up with an effective remediation plan instead of being so frightened by the asbestos that they threw away some of the city's heritage.

Southeastern Railway Museum
collections@srmduluth.org

> Perhaps the museums would have come up with
> an effective remediation plan instead of
> being so frightened by the asbestos that
> they threw away some of the city's heritage.

The engine was being used as playground equipment which became a liability to the city. If little Johnny or Suzie fell off, Mom or Dad would only care for the city's pocket book nevermind its heritage!!! (asbestos was not a factor at the time) Additionaly, the playground spot was within a mile of the ocean therefore the locomotive became an eyesore. As a condition of its removal, the officials stated that no trees could be disturbed. (the trees were planted AFTER the locomotive was placed at the zoo.) When the decision to scrap was made, many of the smaller parts were saved by a local rail group.

By the way, the Golden Gate Railroad Museum recently restored and now operates the zoo's 22 inch gauge Cagney steam engine. Displaced by new animal exhibits, "little Puffer" was stored at the zoo for over two decades.


ken.middlebrook@nsc.com

> The engine was being used as playground
> equipment which became a liability to the
> city. If little Johnny or Suzie fell off,
> Mom or Dad would only care for the city's
> pocket book nevermind its heritage!!!
> (asbestos was not a factor at the time)
> Additionaly, the playground spot was within
> a mile of the ocean therefore the locomotive
> became an eyesore. As a condition of its
> removal, the officials stated that no trees
> could be disturbed. (the trees were planted
> AFTER the locomotive was placed at the zoo.)
> When the decision to scrap was made, many of
> the smaller parts were saved by a local rail
> group.

> By the way, the Golden Gate Railroad Museum
> recently restored and now operates the zoo's
> 22 inch gauge Cagney steam engine. Displaced
> by new animal exhibits, "little
> Puffer" was stored at the zoo for over
> two decades.

Unless the trees were very old and/or very rare, I would have saved the engine. Glad to hear that the 22 inch gauge locomotive has been saved and that it is running. Definitely cool news.


Southeastern Railway Museum
grinnellglacier@yahoo.com

> Unless the trees were very old and/or very
> rare, I would have saved the engine. Glad to
> hear that the 22 inch gauge locomotive has
> been saved and that it is running.
> Definitely cool news.
It wasn't just the trees, it was also the landscaping and I believe part of an zoo exibit. The point is that the City of San Francisco looked on the engine as a piece of playground equipment that had outlived its usefulness, not a historic piece of rail heratige. Politicians are not, for the most part railfans, so railfans must be politically aware.

ironbartom@aol.com