Does anyone have a good source for solid steel rivets, sets for an air hammer, and bucking bars?

Rudd@cogdellmendrala.com

> Does anyone have a good source for solid
> steel rivets, sets for an air hammer, and
> bucking bars?
Champion Rivet/ Trinity Industries 440-871-4771 and/or H.M. Eagle Service 330-792-0566

drotarinoh@webtv.net

If you're going to drive 1/2" and larger rivets, then you'll need a Boyer #60 hammer (Chicago Pneumatic) or it's equivalent. Much larger than 1" really requires a #90. The older models with the spring clip style snap retainer is no longer available (not are the snaps). Modern guns now use a complicated (and expensive) locking collar and, of course, more complicated snaps.

One thing, be sure to get a rivet hammer. Using chipping hammers will drive rivets, but they're a lot more difficult to use and obtain satisfactory results--particularly on steam-fired pressure vessles.

> Does anyone have a good source for solid
> steel rivets, sets for an air hammer, and
> bucking bars?

Rudd might have wanted to specify here using .25" rivets to repair a small locomotive cab.

Actually, my caulking gun should supply adequate power but need a snap that small. We can buck with a bar of scrap iron.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

Some years ago, I salvaged a bunch of rivet snaps (and maybe a gun, I can't remember) that were going to be scrapped at the RR I worked on. I gave them to Mark Smith, and he may still have them stored at his farm. It would probably require a visit to Vermont, but I'm sure they'd go cheap.

> Rudd might have wanted to specify here using
> .25" rivets to repair a small
> locomotive cab.

> Actually, my caulking gun should supply
> adequate power but need a snap that small.
> We can buck with a bar of scrap iron.

> Dave


bobyar2001@yahoo.com

Michigan Pneumatic Tool, Inc
19650 Cloverdale
Detroit, MI 48204
800-521-8104
313-933-5890

> Rudd might have wanted to specify here using
> .25" rivets to repair a small
> locomotive cab.

Buy any old long snap which will fit the gun; cut the end off the snap squarely; place a rivet in a vise with the head sticking up and tighten very tight; insert the snap in the gun; heat about 3/4" of the end of the snap orange to yellow; then using the gun, drive the snap over the rivet head. This will form a dimple in the end of the snap to match the rivet head, and you may have to reheat and drive the snap several times until the right size dimple is formed. This also mushrooms the end of the snap, and you will have to grind the sides of the snap to remove this.

> Actually, my caulking gun should supply
> adequate power but need a snap that small.
> We can buck with a bar of scrap iron.

Use a similar process to form your bucking bar, only heat the bar and drive the rivet's factory formed head into the bar (this may use up several rivets).

Before starting each riveting session, heat both the buck and the snap with a torch until just too hot to touch, otherwise with such small rivets (5/16" and 1/4"), cold tools will draw the heat out long before you can form a good head. Be sure to twist the buck back and forth slightly while the head is being formed by the hammer.

For 1/8" and smaller rivets, put the rivet in the hole cold, heat the end to be driven, then drive.

> Does anyone have a good source for solid
> steel rivets, sets for an air hammer, and
> bucking bars?
I know of a source of #40 thru #90 rivet guns (most are #60) that are about $300.00. They are the old style and need the clips, rivet sets and the pill (hammer) but that can be made or bought from CP or Ajax (800-424-2529). There are air hammers and some other air tools available also for about $150.


fwantz@pressenter.com

Thanks to everybody for the help... seems you can get up to 1/4" pretty easy, after that you have to ask.
In all this discussion, I had a couple questions...now I've shot my fair share of rivs (aircraft assembler for 5 years), but I never used any kind or retainer unless I was using a chisel to knock the shop heads off something I was rebuilding, the set goes in one hand and the gun in the other. Tilt the gun up when you pull away from the work with short sets. Is this strictly a safety thing? (I worked in a federal defense plant that was BIG on safety.)
Secondly, yes I am familiar with 60 pound guns, we called them the 2x. At times when that wasn't enough, we'd get a guy on each side and double buck as the rivet alloy would work harden, if you didn't get in the first few blows, you weren't going to, much like a steel rivet cooling off. Is this not done with hot steel rivs?
Like Dave said, we're just doing some small stuff right now, but who knows what we'll run into tomorrow.

Rudd


Rudd@cogdellmendrala.com

> Tilt the
> gun up when you pull away from the work with
> short sets. Is this strictly a safety thing?

I'm not too familiar with aircraft riveting, but with hot steel rivets, you begin with the gun "slow" to start the head forming and run the gun up to form the head. If you start the gun with full power, all you really wind up doing is driving the rivet out of the hole, especially with hand held bucks because one person can't resist the full force of the hammer. I rotate (spin) the gun slightly while forming the head so slag falls out from between the head and the snap; this forms a more smooth and uniform head. When through driving, shut off the gun, then remove it from the rivet, especially if you use the older style spring clip snap retainer. This type of retainer holds the snap in the gun only when the hammer is NOT going back and forth. If you run the gun when the snap isn't in contact with a firm surface, both the snap and the hammer will come flying out the end of the gun. The newer OSHA collar type retainer prevents this. Be very careful with guns which have these older style retainers. Merely bumping the trigger is enough to cause the rivet and snap to fly about 20 feet--you can seriously injure someone.

> Secondly, yes I am familiar with 60 pound
> guns, we called them the 2x. At times when
> that wasn't enough, we'd get a guy on each
> side and double buck as the rivet alloy
> would work harden,

What on an airplane needs rivet guns which run at 90 PSI on a 3/4 air line??

> like a steel rivet cooling off. Is this not
> done with hot steel rivs?

More or less. If you don't have access to an induction furnace or someone who knows how to run a forge, rivets can be heated with an acetynene torch (reducing flame) in a piece of angle iron. Heat the shank staw color but not spitting and the head no more than deep orange.

For your 1/4" rivets, it will probably be easier to put them in "cold" (i.e preheat them but not necessarily even cherry red) and heat the end your going to form the head to straw color. Length is caculated as grip distance plus 1 1/2 diameters for ordinary button head rivets, provided you ream the hole to the proper dimension.