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research question
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17533		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  scrmcurator [ Mon May 23, 2005 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  research question
I recently got a letter from a gentleman in Horry County, SC looking for information on a 4-8-0 that was delivered to the Rockton & Rion Ry. in the '30s. He included a photocopy of a picture of the locomotive, which I've added to my all-time roster of the R&R:http://206.74.77.9/sctrainstuff/history/rr_rocktonrion/roster.htmlThe engine obviously has a Belpaire firebox, which brings the PRR to mind, but doesn't necessarily mean it was built by or for the PRR (did they even have any Mastadons?). I very much doubt that she was ever used by the R&R, a Mastadon would be awfully big for that railroad. Anyone have any info on this engine? I don't have any data on the engine other than the fact that it came from the Atlantic Coast Lumber Company's Georgetown & Western RR. It doesn't appear to be listed in Tom Fetters' book on SC loggers.ImageBTW, I'm always interested in old photos of the R&R and its equipment.
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon May 23, 2005 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Anyone taking my wager?--ex-N&W 4-8-0?
Awaiting a flight home to my library, but I'm willing to wager the money in my wallet right now that before I land in BWI someone will come up with documentation of the N&W heritage of this loco....... I mean, c'mon, Belpaire and 4-8-0? N&W for certain.......
Author:  rjenkins [ Mon May 23, 2005 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone taking my wager?--ex-N&W 4-8-0?
I'll take your wager. To my knowlege, N&W only had three classes of 4-8-0, the M, M1, and M2 classes, none of which had Belpaire fireboxes. It's possible that there might have been an earlier class that I'm not aware of, but this one doesn't look like it could be a whole lot older than an M (introduced in 1906), so I would put my money on it NOT being of N&W heritage.Richard Jenkins
Author:  Taylor Rush [ Mon May 23, 2005 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone taking my wager?--ex-N&W 4-8-0?
You're probably right, lettering style of the 238 on the cab certainly looks like N&W. Builders plate kinda looks like an ALCO, though it's hard to tell.Thanks, Taylor
Author:  Gary Gray [ Mon May 23, 2005 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone taking my wager?--ex-N&W 4-8-0?
Fork it over, Sandy. (I may consider beer in trade next time we cross paths....) The last N&W engines built with Belpaire fireboxes were the G1 2-8-0's in 1897. 4-8-0's didn't show up on the N&W roster until 1906, they were all built with extended wagon-top boilers. If I had to hazard a guess on this beast, I would say maybe Great Northern?
Author:  scottychaos [ Mon May 23, 2005 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone taking my wager?--ex-N&W 4-8-0?
Could be Great Northern,they had 4-8-0's with Belpaires:http://www.gngoat.org/gn_steam_10.jpghttp://www.gngoat.org/gn_steam_locomotives.htmScot
Author:  robertjohndavis [ Mon May 23, 2005 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  MoPac? Re: research question
Hmmm... MoPac had Belpaire equipped 4-8-0's, too. GN or MoPac seems to be my best guess.
Author:  survivingworldsteam [ Mon May 23, 2005 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone taking my wager?--ex-N&W 4-8-0?
rjenkins wrote:
I'll take your wager. To my knowlege, N&W only had three classes of 4-8-0, the M, M1, and M2 classes, none of which had Belpaire fireboxes. It's possible that there might have been an earlier class that I'm not aware of, but this one doesn't look like it could be a whole lot older than an M (introduced in 1906), so I would put my money on it NOT being of N&W heritage.Richard Jenkins
Not mentioned yet, but the locomotive in the picture also has inside admission valves; neither the M Class locomotives nor any other candidates I know have had them.I agree it looks like a ALCO builders plate on the smokebox.-James Hefner Hebrews 10:20a Surviving World Steam Project
Author:  Danska [ Mon May 23, 2005 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone taking my wager?--ex-N&W 4-8-0?
As an OLD Minnesota boy, that has the Great Northern look.I'd bet on GN.
Author:  robertjohndavis [ Mon May 23, 2005 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Image - Re: MoPac? Re: research question
Imagehttp://www.trainweb.org/screamingeagle/other/bramson/mp1808_ghull.jpg
Author:  johnacraft [ Mon May 23, 2005 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone taking my wager?--ex-N&W 4-8-0?
survivingworldsteam wrote:
the locomotive in the picture also has inside admission valves; neither the M Class locomotives nor any other candidates I know have had them.
Actually, N&W's M's were built with inside admission. The elbow steam pipes are a later modification.JAC
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue May 24, 2005 3:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone taking my wager?--ex-N&W 4-8-0?
Dis I mention that my wallet only had $1.18 in it at the time?That won't even get you a Rolling Rock in most pubs, let alone a railroad-themed beer.............(^_^)
Author:  Dave Stephenson [ Tue May 24, 2005 7:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone taking my wager?--ex-N&W 4-8-0?
It looks like it was based on an ex-IC 4-8-0, built by Brooks around 1899. See 100 Years of Steam Locomotives, Walter A. Lucas, pg 167. Same boiler/firebox configuration, inside valves. Even though the IC loco was never duplicated, it appears to be the source of inspiration for the loco pictured at the beginning of this thread.
Author:  scrmcurator [ Sun May 29, 2005 8:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: research question
Replying to myself here, as I've gotten some more info offline. I've now updated my R&R roster page with info on the 230. It's sort of a stretch including the engine on the R&R's roster since I'm 99.9% positive that they never actually used her, but it seems she was on the property for a while and was apparently cut up there.http://206.74.77.9/sctrainstuff/history/rr_rocktonrion/roster.htmlNobody here had the right answer. The engine was ex-Buffalo, Rochester & Pittsburgh #230, built by Brooks. Y'all had some interesting guesses, though. Any thoughts on why the R&R would have acquired her? FYI, they got the engine in 1932, which is the year the railroad was formally chartered as a common carrier (prior to that it was an industrial railroad).
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