FIRST OFF, LET'S JUST LET WHAT HAS HAPPENED HERE GO FOR CRYING OUT LOUD AND JUST LET THIS BE A THREAD REGARDING THE MOVEMENT AND OPERATION OF READING 2100 IN TACOMA, PLEASE!!!Okay, any news on 2100 being moved yet?A buddy of mine who isn't into trains at all but lives near Freighthouse Square asked me about this yesterday, he'd read it in the paper, so they're talking it up in the local media now, it seems...

I'm wondering -- assuming the engine is going to be moved west -- what route is planned and where they'll cross into the US.It can't be the tunnel in Detroit because the tunnel was lowered a few years ago and the engine probably won't clear. Are they going to have to go east to go west and cross in New York State?Bob H.

Bob said, "It can't be the tunnel in Detroit because the tunnel was lowered a few years ago and the engine probably won't clear."Bob,Was the top of the tunnel lowered or the bottom?It's not unusual to lower the tracks in a tunnel to *increase* clearance, which is why I wonder.Roger

I believe the floor of the Detroit tunnel was lowered to increase clearances and that since the new Port Huron - Sarnia Tunnel was bored specifically to accommodate double stacks and the occasional DIM shipment the 2100 will probably clear. If she is under steam but not working, the tunnel ventilation system for the diesel exhaust should be sufficient. There are also the options of moving on Canadien Pacific through northern Michigan or a mostly Canada route.I would imagine (pure speculation on my part) that any move will be either on Canadien Pacific or Union Pacific or on some combination of the two because of the current experience both companies have in moving steam locomotives. GME

When she moves,I would suspect that she moves in a mostly Canadian routing, then towed from the westernmost border crossing to her home terminal. there is the slight possibility that she might move on the BNSF westbound,but I wouldn't bet money on it........

They lowered the floor of the tunnel under the Detroit River a few inches -- just enough so that the 1225 wouldn't clear when they want to take it to Steamtown in 1995. Same issue came up with the move of the 2816 last year -- and CSX wound up towing it.Bob H.

It's not at the TOP where the problem is. It's down at cylinder level.You may recall, like Bob mentions, that 261 and 1225 were to transit the tunnel en route Steamtown. It was only after 261 had departed Minneapolis that it was confirmed that the cylinders, or cylinder cocks, wouldn't clear the new floor. Maybe they poured new concrete walkways, maybe they just gouged a trench and left the edges untouched - I don't recall. If I recall correctly, 261 sat in Chicago for an extra day while a new route was put together on the fly - to Pittsburgh instead of Detroit, then over the BR&P(?) to Conrail's Southern Tier.JAC

It could, theorotically, move via CN, as the Port Huron-Sarnia tunnel is low enough. Not sure if the "no steam" policy means deadhead moves too, though.TJ

If memory serves me right, the tunnel under the Detroit River has a oval shaped profile -- when they lowered the floor, the dimensions were such that the cylinders would no longer clear. The 1225 group didn't find out about this until the day before the engine was going to be moved.Once upon a time, steam engines operated through this tunnel and also the one at Port Huron, but they were later replaced with electrics.Bob H

In the case of the original (1891-built) St. Clair River Tunnel, it was for a VERY short period of its overall lifespan --- from 1891 - 1908. Two horrible assphyization indicents, one in 1900 and the other in 1904, resulted in the deaths of nearly 15 men. Both incidents were due to links being brokens due to the grade coming out of the tunnel, and the crews trying to back in to get the train ---- one horrible way to go.In 1907 St. Clair Tunnel Company (a wholly-owned Subsidiary of GTR, later CN/ GTW) built a powerhouse and purchased six electrics from Baldwin Westinghouse for the Tunnel, with service commencing early in 1908. They later purchased two additional second-hand units from the South Shore as well, circa 1927, after the South Shore changed electric systems. This service ended in 1958, when a new ventilation system was put in, and diesels took over. Sadly, all the electrics were scrapped by 1959. By the early 1960's, the old tunnel was already too small, and CN actually re-instuted car float service to handle high-cubes and auto racks in 1969, which lasted until 1995, when the new tunnel was built. The new tunnel was opened in May 1995, and the old tunnel closed, gradually filling with water. Thus ended 104 years of service, making it one of the oldest underwater tunnels in continuous operation at the time. A picture of the electric power below:TJ Gaffney

I just read a private message from Aarne Frobom explaining the clearance issue in the Detroit River Tunnel which I hope he will post here. I do not believe I have ever seen the current (post-lowering) clearance diagram and I made the blithe assumption that since it was designed originally for third rail electric traction there would have been plenty of room at the bottom. OOPSGME

Okay, when/if it gets to Tacoma, are they going to use those Tacoma Rail coaches they just had rebuilt about a year or so ago? I rode on them at the last open house I went to at the Tideflats (even talked with Bob Harbison in the same vestibule). Nicely rebuilt coaches, and I asked what on earth they had them for. I was told that Tacoma Rail was going to do excusaion trains eventually. I just thought it was that "train to Mt Rainier" thing they've been talking for years. Is this what those coaches were for all along?And what of shop facilities? Seems I was the last to know this was coming, so for all the local guys in the know, if this was in the works for years, where's 2100 going to be housed?Some buddies are coming up from Florida for the convention in July and I'd like to show them the 2100, that is assuming they don't get the chance to see it under steam in Portland...And at the risk of asking an idiotic question, is this something that will last just the summer or do they think this will become a permanent thing in Tacoma?

Does anyone here know the heritage (built for) and last owners of the cars that will be used in this service? Numbers and/or quantity of cars would be appreciated. Many thanks,Tom Cornillie

Well, in further web searching I found by chance a photo of part of their fleet:http://www.specialty-products.com/images/RAILYARD%20SECONDARY%20CONTAINMENT%20011.jpgorHowever, left to be know is their Amtrak numbers, how many are in the fleet, if they have been rebuilt since leaving Amtrak service - and if so what has been done and by whom.Tom Cornillie

Tom, They appear to be former Amtrak "Clockers", formerly Pennsy Congressional and/or Senator coaches.Don C.