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| Available: Cotton Belt branchline caboose 2305 https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17780 |
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| Author: | Howard P. [ Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Available: Cotton Belt branchline caboose 2305 |
RMNE has made Cotton Belt branchline caboose 2305 available. It does not fit our scope of collection, and needs an appropriate new home. As best as we can determine, it was built by SSW's Pine Bluff shops in 1920.This car is 50 ft long and contains a small coach compartment, a baggage compartment and a caboose cupola. It is a wood car with a steel center sill and steel bolsters. Has 4 1/4 x 8 plain bearing trucks, cast iron wheels, AB brakes. Interior has partitions (including toilet room) but no seats or stoves (there were two stoves originally). It was extensively rebuilt in 1981-83 and was last repainted in 1991. It cannot ship on own wheels and will have to be trucked. Located in Old Saybrook, CT.No photos available right now, but we might have some as early as end of this week. On-site inspection is suggested, contact me to make arrangements. Interested and serious parties should contact me at: hpincus AT mindspring DOT com or by telephone through our Thomaston office number (860-283-7245).If this car is of interest to your group, contact me. You might be surprised at how flexible we are on making a deal for this car!HP |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Available: Cotton Belt branchline caboose 2305 |
Okay, I can't let this go without asking...........How in $#(*&^@ did a RR Museum in New England end up with this car?The only thing I can fathom is that it got picked up by Nelson Blount or some other collector, and wasdonated to or acquired by the RMNE either as a "nice donation" or as an expendable piece of equipment. |
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| Author: | Mike LaBouliere [ Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Available: Cotton Belt branchline caboose 2305 |
It came to the Valley RR in Essex CT with the Empire State RR Museum's stuff when the VRR first opened. Their equipment was transferred/sold to RMNE (at the time CVRM). I have have seen color silent video of it in operation on the M&NJ when ESRM had an operation there with the 2-6-2 103, C&NW 409 and one of the 1100's. |
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| Author: | Jim Lundquist [ Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Available: Cotton Belt branchline caboose 2305 |
While we aren't interested in it here in california, THANK YOU for rationalizing your collection.Jim |
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| Author: | Howard P. [ Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Available: Cotton Belt branchline caboose 2305 |
Well, are you sure, Jim? The Cotton Belt was an SP subsidiary..... :-)) |
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| Author: | Danska [ Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Available: Cotton Belt branchline caboose 2305 |
Is there some unwritten law that says that railway museums should be only local or regional in scope.Why shouldn't a facility in New England have a Cotton Belt caboose, or a museum in Wisconsin have a UP big boy?Should the Field Museum in Chicago have only exhibits from around Chicago? |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Why not a GG1 in Hawaii? |
No, there is no law, written or otherwise, that a railway museum should only collect local stuff.However, the museum definitely needs to have a mission that somehow includes such oddities. In the case of rail museums such as the National Railroad Museum in Green Bay, the Museum of Transport in St. Louis (and, to a lesser extent, the Age of Steam Museum in Dallas--though they have a GG1, which does have a steam generator, but....), or Steamtown, these collections are attempting to be national in scope. Therefore, the NRM can justify a GG1, a Big Boy, an Army Consolidation, a C&O Kanawha, a Burlington RPO and obs, and an ACL sleeper.In another case, look at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania..... It can justify anything as long as it was made in Pa., operated in Pa., or was owned by a Pa. company. A UP Big Boy or Milwaukee F7 has no business being there, whereas almost any Budd-built car can be justified. Or look at the B&O Museum--all B&O all the time (though they have a few "strays" and are reportedly reconsidering whether to add the PRR GG1 to their displays......).The bitter truth, however, is that most railroad museums, in common with most local museums worldwide, have to have a local angle to attract the combination of local and regional support critical to their survival. As we've all discovered the hard way, it's easier to get people interested in your efforts when it's a home-town railroad/building/cause and not just some generic tourist hook. There's also the legitimate question, as well, as to why, for example, a museum in southern Florida has a stunning collection of Burlington passenger equipment.In the case of the RR Museum of New England, however, the only two possible ways to justify an odd-duck Cotton Belt caboose is if the caboose had been built by a New England car builder, OR as a "consumable" piece of passenger-carrying rolling stock. Assuming that it's neither, the best thing to do is to offer it in trade or fair sale to a better home, preferably in Cotton Belt territory as an artifact rather than to, say, the Grand Canyon RR for a movie prop. |
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| Author: | Brian Norden [ Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mission statements |
Years ago when our museum had its MAPI assessment (at that time the only MAP assessment) the reviewer was the Museum Director of the Montana State Museum who later went on to become the Director of the Missouri Historical Society and also President of AASLH. Before he left he had a session with our board, officers and others and among the things he talked to us about was having a mission statement.He urged that we develope a mission statement that would limit our collection -- he said, "Don't be the upper mid-west museum of everything in the world."When we developed our mission statement (and later our collections policy) we made a point of reminding ourselves that we wanted to provide direction to the museum -- not to excuse all the stuff we had already collected. |
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| Author: | John D [ Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Background on Danbury museum's ex-SAL Alco RSC-2? |
Along the general lines of "how did that end up there", does anyone have the background info on how an ex-Seaboard Air Line Alco RSC-2 ended up at the Danbury Railroad Museum? I've got a place in mind, south of the Mason-Dixon line, that might be a more appropriate home-just gotta convince some folks first.... |
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| Author: | Lone_Star [ Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why not a GG1 in Hawaii? |
For anyone who would propose a trade for said GG1 to a more regionally appropriate venue, what's there to be had of approximately equal value and most importantly, regional interest? To my knowedge, there haven't been any offers as there seem to be several neglected GG1s already "at home" in the northeast. Ben KrogerDallas, Texas |
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| Author: | eldiner [ Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why not a GG1 in Hawaii? |
Quote: To my knowedge, there haven't been any offers as there seem to be several neglected GG1s already "at home" in the northeast. This begs the question: how many GG1s do we need to save? In the late 80's it seemed every railroad museum had one (or even two - I guess so they could paint one tuscan red and one brunswick green). Many of them have since been cut up. One wonders what could have been preserved with the money spent to buy, move, store and (in some cases) scrap these things from places they probably never should have been.
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why not a GG1 in Hawaii? |
Please note, I am in no way knocking the preservation of a GG1 in Dallas, nor proposing a trade. I haven't been to the Age of Steam Museum in Dallas, and I have no idea whether it's well cared for or what context it's in, other than the name "Age of Steam" and the fact that a GG1 isn't steam. And I know all too well of the two neglected and one scrapped-post-preservation GG1s.The GG1 is obviously a superstar for attention and affection, far out of its proportion to railroad history, right up there with the UP Big Boy and Centennial. The "glut" of G's stems in part from Amtrak making an offer to sell GG1s to "qualified preservationists" in 1982-83 for a paltry $5,000 FOB Wilmington at a time when the actual scrap value was more akin to $18,000. It was also easier to ship a GG1 back then than the railroads have made it now.Still, aside from ones purely rotting in storage at the moment (five come to mind), I have trouble finding a GG1 that really is in an inappropriate home. I'm glad one is in Green Bay and another is in Dallas. There's also very valid cases for the ones in Altoona, Harrisburg, Strasburg, etc. I think the only problem that has arisen is proper administration (or lack thereof) of certain places that have never really justified their actions or (in the case of the various sputtering and faltering New Jersey museum projects) haven't come to fruition. |
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| Author: | steamtown observer [ Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why not a GG1 in Hawaii? |
I don't know if it is still the plan, but at one time the museum being put together at Copperstown Junction, NY planned to paint their GG1 in NYO&W colors. |
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| Author: | Lone_Star [ Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why not a GG1 in Hawaii? |
"Age of Steam" isn't really an appropriate name for the Dallas collection now that diesels have been added to the mix, but it was a convenient title for the State Fair of Texas exhibit forty years ago that was the genesis for today's museum. Within the context of superstar locomotives, a GG1 is at least in the company of a big boy and centennial for comparison. There are certainly locomotives which would be better suited to a Texas museum but the powers that be at the time seemed to think a GG1 was a fair trade for NYC 3001. If 3001 were still in Dallas instead of Elkhart, we'd probably have the same discussion about its need for relocation, as well.Ben Kroger |
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| Author: | Frank Hicks [ Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why not a GG1 in Hawaii? |
eldiner wrote: This begs the question: how many GG1s do we need to save? In the late 80's it seemed every railroad museum had one (or even two - I guess so they could paint one tuscan red and one brunswick green). Many of them have since been cut up. One wonders what could have been preserved with the money spent to buy, move, store and (in some cases) scrap these things from places they probably never should have been. To my knowledge, only one GG-1 has been cut up post-preservation, not "many." In addition, I believe there are only two organizations have more than one GG-1. There are a couple of GG-1's that are neglected and may be in danger of going to scrap in the future, but most preserved examples are in good condition and well cared for. In my opinion, the argument "the money could be better used on something else" is generally subjective and could be used to "justify" an untold number of funding reallocations. A C&O fan might be happy to see that old GG-1 scrapped and a Chessie SW9 bought instead - but would a PRR fan agree? Just my two cents.
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