Bob's observation of the engine house at Silver Plume, for the Georgetown Loop railroad, is accurate. It is a very functional shop, which includes an oil room, parts room, upstairs storage (which we are turning into a crew room), bathroom with shower, office AND two tracks with full length pits equipped with a drop table to remove wheels...what a fantastic set up. Yes, the one thing missing would be smoke jacks...which I am pleased to report we are in the process of having them fabricated and installed. Each day I am amazed to learn more and more of the degree as to which CHS is devoting to this project. I am an outsider that has no ties to the politics of the past. What I see is the unflagging dedication of an historical society to bring to the public a top notch narrow gauge experiance focusing on local history. From all the Railstar folks here in Georgetown and Silver Plume we tip our hats and give three cheers to CHS for all of thier efforts.Steven Torrico,Operations Manager-GLRR

In all fairness I do belive the engine house was designed, built and paid for by the former operators. Like you, I am an outsider....but give credit where credit is due. I to tip my hat to all efforts currently put forth by CHS.

Please forgive me if I gave the wrong impression in my post...it was in response to a post that said who ever built the enginehouse did not build it appropriate and thought it was more like a drive-in bank.Our crew is most happy with this great facility...I have never had such a nice place to work on equipment. My kindest regards to the former operator in building this place.

The enginehouse was built by the State of Colorado, and designed by an architectural firm that won an award for it - but it was not a good example of form following function. The addition of smoke jacks will certainly help remediate one of the most obvious difficulties. Somewhere I have a picture of a huge icicle formed where the two pitches come together in a valley that leads to just above the entry door to the office - made winter access something of an adventure.dave

My "drive-in bank" comment meant no criticism of either the former or current operator of the Loop, but is reflective on how such projects get done with public money. Here's the way I see things happening:1. Serious historians promote the idea of recreating something historic, and get legislators to sign on. Funds are appropriated.2. The serious historians then step aside, either willingly or unwillingly. Architectural, engineering and construction firms are now hired, often with close political/financial ties to the present party in power.3. These types of firms have little interest or knowledge about the site's history or of old buildings. They simply design and build a modern "cookie cutter" building, adapting it to the purpose at hand. 4. The site now has an odd mix of old stuff and new. The new building is functional and efficient, but looks out of place. But the money's been spent and there's no turning back.Silver Plume, with its enginehouse and much-criticised train barn are certainly not the only examples of what I'm talking about. Steamtown's purple metal roundhouse addition is another, as is the modern visitors center at the Golden Spike site. The RR Museum of Pa.'s older display hall could have easily been a high school gym of the same era; the new portion could house a Cadillac dealer. Nevada State RR Museum's buildings could become a giant Jiffy Lube with few modifications. Sacramento's mall-like MORT complex was fortunately aborted in favor of saving the historic SP shops. Sadder yet is when the real historic sites are lost or spoiled by these modern intrusions. Imagine what could have been at Carson City had planning to save the old shops and railyard site begun in the 1960s, when the area was less-developed. Chama, also, would have remained more historic if they had built that new enginehouse at Antonito on virgin ground instead of where it is. As far as I know, Spencer still plans to corrupt its incredibly historic site into a never-was scenario, and I once saw plans for a modern visitors center to intrude on the railyard at Mt. Union.At Virginia City, plans are underway to build a modern history center near the railroad tracks, incorporating a V&T locomotive inside. At present, the yard area could easily be made to look like it did in the railroad's heyday, if simple replicas of the V&T's original wooden structures were built instead. Recent visitors there report the original right-of-way below Gold Hill is being bulldozed into oblivion by contractors building the new route - to federal highway standards. Had that proposed Golden Spike route from Corinne west to Promontory ever been built, it no doubt would have been done the same, with Cats and Euclids in place of sweating Irishmen and mule teams.I've yet to visit Colonial Williamsburg, but hope to this year. From all I've read and seen, though, they set the standard for historic authenticity, one that our field would do well to emulate. I seriously doubt if they would allow a modern concrete block structure on their site because some bureaucrat had a friend in the construction business.And back to that Silver Plume enginehouse, if you changed the doors, filled in the pits, added a carport and some pavement and shrubbery out front, you'd have a drive-in bank..

Actually the accuracy of Colonial Williamsburg has often been challenged, sometimes from the narrow point of view of "are the buildings and furnature correct" and sometimes more broadly-- "too clean, too sanitized, no slavery, no inequality, etc."Most observers agree that from its founding through the 1970s much of Colonial Williamsburg was definately idealized--the emphasis on accuracy over aesthetics is really a development of the 1970s and later.Here is just a sample:"The Governor's Palace is one of the most beautiful buildings in all of Williamsburg. It's a reconstruction - the original burned down in the early 19th century. It was one of the first buildings in the historic district to be rebuilt, and when it was finished, it was decorated with yards of luxurious damask, rolls of chinese-influenced wallpaper, and painted in restrained colors. It was beautiful. It was "colonial." It was inaccurate.The building itself was correct enough - it had been designed based on 18th century drawings and archaeological evidence. But when the researchers at Williamsburg found the household inventory of one of Virginia's last governors, they realized that the furnishings and decor were almost all wrong.Over a number of years, curators painstakingly repainted the rooms, removed the chinese wallpaper from the dining room (which is kind of too bad--it was stunning), and refurnished the Palace with the items that the inventory mentioned. Now the Palace, with its refurbishment complete, is a facinating snapshot of a precise moment in time, down to the last soup tureen in the butler's pantry.Another relatively recent change to Williamsburg is a house that the 18th century equivalent of a blue-collar worker would have lived in. It is small, dark, cramped, and seemingly so inexpertly constructed that it looks like a large shack. It's a strong corrective to the upper and upper-middle class houses and shops lining Duke of Gloucester Street, bringing it home that not everybody lived in pretty little clapboard houses with quaint gardens in the back."

No doubt Williamsburg's goals and methods have changed since the place was first restored in the 1920s, as has society in general. But the point is that they are working toward authenticity rather than away from it, as is often done in our field, where we seldom even bother to try to save historic sites, and if we do, we allow them to be corrupted into something that never was. Witness places like Como, Colorado, a site that could be rebuilt to look much like it did when the C&S still operated narrow gauge trains there. Its private owners have done a lot to rebuild the roundhouse and would like to do more. But several inquiries on the Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum have shown that virtually no one that posts on that board is an active volunteer up there, though it really is the most historic of all remaining narrow gauge sites in Colorado. Many of these posters live in the Denver area, an easy day's drive to spend the weekend there. And if serious state or federal money were ever put into the place, the first thing that would probably get built, would be a concrete block visitors center, with a strong resemblance to a drive-in bank.

First off, in defense of my profession, a designer or architect is only as good as the info they are given. While there are some I have encountered who are so arrogant as to insist on imposing their "vision" onto a historic site, or so lazy they will simply resketch a Jiffy Lube, most are professional enough to take information given and act properly with it.It is sad that so often, as mentioned, the prime motivators of reconstruction or replication projects, who often have the history at their fingertips, are not involved in the process through to the end. This would help immensely.Sometimes, however, there are other demands that must be balanced when redeveloping or adding on to a historic site.I have spent 6 years now as head of Portola's Site Committee and led the design of a comprehensive Master Plan for the Portola Diesel Shop site. One of the most vexing problems was the need for covered storage of rare and restored rolling stock on the site.Now, since the 1950's, the current 2 track diesel shop has basically been the only large building on the site. Adding anything else will alter the character of the facility and its historic context. At the same time, we MUST protect our equipment.The compromise was to design a large display building that will take its aesthetic look from the Western Pacific's Jeffrey Shops that once stood in Sacramento. This building will only look like Jeffrey Shop (the original building was 16-18 tracks wide, this one will be 4), but will at least add a visual element that is in context with the larger railroad, if not specifically that site.In a similar vein, we are planning a replica depot, based on a WP prototype, and now have a historic interlocking tower from Oakland. Again, these were not original to the site, but are being planned, along with a replica of the WP's Winnemucca Roundhouse which will feature the authentic Oroville Turntable, and placed on the site in such a way that they will hopefully enhance the historic experience, even as they alter the form of the diesel facility itself.We have wrestled with this for many years, working on ways to maintain the original feel of a working facility while providing for the protection our equipment demands and the amenities our visitors deserve. It is never easy and I am sure that, when all this is done, someone will be upset.All I can say is that we are doing our best. When its done, I hope more people like it then don't.Eugene

I have to concur with Mr Vicknair. In addition, I must point out that there is usually a signficant cost advantage to using standard "pre-engineered" buildings for museum applications. In addition, there are many necessary or desirable features that are much simpler to provide in modern buildings and make the replication of a historic building far from accurate and, in my opinion, even somewhat hokey! I would not give up the wide viewing aisles, wide, yet tight fitting doors, clean concrete floor, high intensity lighting, insulation, humidity controlled ventilation, and sprinkler and alarm systems in our new carbarn for any amount of pseudo-antique charm. In my opinion, it is far more important to provide for the conservation, restoration and public display of rolling stock and other artifacts than to attempt to produce a non-authentic "historic" site.However, this does not mean that the conservation and restoration of historic railroad structures is not a valid goal, but it must be understood that such structures are often not suitable for museum purposes without a lot of modification that affects their historic character.Also, in defense of design professionals, some of the requirements of rail museum buildings are to, put it mildly, different from their past experience. Recently, I had to design trolley wire for our new carbarn. The trolley wire, lighting and sprinkler system all had to fit in the same space below the roof. The lighting designer was one of our members who is an electrical engineer with much industrial facility experience. However, explaining the constraints resulting from the trolley wire to our sprinkler system design contractor was a very interesting mutual learning experience.Art SchwartzPennsylvania Trolley Museum