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| PRR 643 back in one piece https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17927 |
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| Author: | Jim Robinson [ Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | PRR 643 back in one piece |
The folks at the Williams Grove Historical Steam Engine Association (WGHSEA) recently reinstalled the repaired boiler onto the chassis of former PRR class B4a 0-6-0 643 (PRR Juniata Shops, 1901). The boiler had been removed and sent to a boiler repair shop for firebox work and new tubes. The rotted-out bottom portion of the smokebox had been "left behind" (cut out) when the boiler was removed. This has been replaced with new material. While the boiler was away, attention was given to the running gear including getting things trued up.BTW, this is the locomotive's second boiler. The original PRR boiler was replaced in 1945 by this one furnished by the Porter Locomotive Works. This took place during the time the loccomotive worked as #5 of the Central Iron & Steel Company of Harrisburg, Pa (later part of the Phoenix Iron & Steel Company).Congradulations to the WGHSEA folks for getting their Pennsy veteran that much closer to returning to operation.A (large) photo of the reunited boiler / chassis can be found at www.williamsgrovesteam.org/643/P1010310.JPG(BTW, that's a former Maryland & Pennsylvania RR boxcar in the backround)Regards,Jim Robinson |
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| Author: | Howard P. [ Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRR 643 back in one piece |
Are those threadless, welded staybolts? The new ones, that is. And what's up with the lifting padeye welded onto the wrapper sheet? Will that be cut off and ground flush?It is nice to see this sort of "heavy firebox work" taking place, as in the past, plenty of locomotives seem to have been set aside when this work comes due. An increased skill level and knowledge base with more of these repairs taking place means that some parked locomotives may run in the future. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRR 643 back in one piece |
Howard, I would assume it was economic rather han practical considerations that condemned these locomotives when repairs were needed. DPM wrote and editorial in TRAINS a few decades ago in which he predicted the demise of steam wouldn't be the 4-8-4 bumped off the mainline by new diesels, but the barely useable shortline or industrial goat facing a required repair the marginal operator can't afford to make. It isn't a matter for us to be proud of that we have allowed ourselves to operate so marginally that just using up the next steamer in line was the chosen option, rather than doing the required work in so many cases over the years. There has not been a better time to rebuild a boiler, build a new one, or replicate an entire locomotive than today technologically pseaking (as I have preached before) but who has the need and money to do so? dave |
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| Author: | R. Hahn [ Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRR 643 back in one piece |
Any idea what boiler shop it went out to?Roger |
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| Author: | Dave Lewandoski [ Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRR 643 back in one piece |
Thanks for the pic and the info! |
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| Author: | Jim Robinson [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRR 643 back in one piece |
For information on the boiler repairs you would have to contact the WGHSEA at 717-766-4001 or prr643@hotmail.com Mr. Frank Arndt would be the man with the answers. I spoke to him last fall and he did mention the name and location of the boiler shop, but it has since slipped my mind. I THINK I recall him saying they were in or near Manheim, Pa. (wherever it was, it was fairly local to the group's location near Harrisburg).The main repair was the replacement of the crownsheet along with tube replacement. How they handled the crownstays, I don't know.It appears that the lifting eyes were fab'ed and added by the boiler shop. I'm not sure, but I think they are now a permanent part of the boiler (not that they plan on going through any additional boiler removal anytime soon!).BTW, this weekend (7/16 and 7/17) the WGHSEA is hosting a model train and railroadania show on its grounds. The proceeds will go towards the continuing overhaul work on 643. During this weekend train rides will be offered behind the group's ex-Pennsylvania Power & Light Co. Whitcomb diesel switcher.For those unfamilar with this operation, they are located on the property of the Williams Grove Amusement Park & Speedway on Williams Grove Road. The park is off of (and a mile west of) US Route 15, which is the Gettysburg Pike Exit of the PA Turnpike.Regards,Jim Robinson |
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| Author: | pm-man [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRR 643 back in one piece |
I also think it would take, and pardon the captilism reference here, a "supply and demand" approach that I'm still not convinced is feasible in the majority of the industry. Even a 2 or 3 foot gauge boiler can be quite expensive these days --- and although I'm not at ground zero here, I have to think much of that expense is becuase its too much of a "one off" job for someone to make a regular living from. Because of that, getting "new blood", whether it be a younger generation going in fresh or an older generation that has free time on their hands/ second career, there still will only be so many jobs out there available --- and even fewer groups that can afford to have it done. Its not to say that, oh, a Grand Canyon or a Strasburg couldn't afford to do some of those repairs in house ---- but they use that equipment regularly, and so it makes financial sense to have the infrastructure in place. The mom and pop running weekends only (and that only in the summer) filling their engine from a fire hydrant (and not entirely sure what "Boiler wash" or "treatment" means) can ill-afford to spend 1/4 - 1/2 million on a boiler, no matter how much it makes sense in "the long run." If there is a great culling coming in operating steam --- it will be here. The operations who have, at least in some sense, made the investment in upkeep over time can probably make it --- those that haven't will either shut down or switch to diesel when the boiler no longer passes grade. TJG |
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| Author: | prr643 [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRR 643 back in one piece |
Hey:Thanks everyone for their interest in our efforts to get #643 running again. I'm an loco crew memeber on 643, and web master of our website. Just to answer a few of the questions raised here. Yes, the new stays are welded. I know there is some debate on how well welded stays do in railroad operation, I was not involved in that decision, so I can't join that debate. The boiler is actually certified by PA State inspection for operation now, but there is no way we can get her back together in time to run this year, the goal right now is summer 2006. The lift ears where added by the boiler maker to make it easier to move around their shop (the boiler work was done as filler work to keep the cost as low as possible, so they would work on it for a bit, then put aside, work some more at time permited, and put aside, etc.). Other work of interest performed while the boiler was away included the installation of the new smokebox bottom, which we hope to begin welding in place in the next month or so, and the repair on some old weld work to the frame. The story on this is that at some unknown point during her life her frame was broken in a couple of places. The repair work performed was mechanically solid, but she always had a slope to the rear that made her look like she was dragging her ass. We hope that our repairs will take that out, we'll see, it's hard to tell yet, but we sure tried! Check out our website at http://www.williamsgrovesteam.org for lots of pictures and information about both of our upcomming shows. Thanks again, and we can always be reached at prr643@hotmail.com, or at our new address of prr643@willaimsgrovesteam.org.Tom von Trott |
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| Author: | Steamteam91 [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRR 643 back in one piece |
I believe the boiler shop was Herr & Sacco, a local mechanical contractor. |
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| Author: | prr643 [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRR 643 back in one piece |
Yep, that was the place, forgot to answer that question in my other post. |
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| Author: | rrmuseum [ Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRR 643 back in one piece |
Just a little correction for history's sake. This loco was a product of the Altoona Shops - a different complex than the Juniata Shops. The Altoona Works comprised an area that is now occupied by the Railroaders Memorial Museum, Altoona Pipe and Steel and the Blair Medical Mall in downtown Altoona.Thanks |
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| Author: | Jim Robinson [ Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PRR 643 back in one piece |
In case anyone is interested...This Herr & Sacco Inc. mechanical / fabrication firm is in Landisville, Pa. They are an "S" and "R" stamp shop.Regards,Jim Robinson |
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