Photos of this 2-8-0 being loaded in Wisconsin, heading to Seattle by truck, then barge to Skagway:http://www.whitepassfan.net/whitepass/home/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=65&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0This from the WhitePassFanList:On Thursday, July 7th White Pass & Yukon #69 began its journey back to Alaskafrom North Lake, WI following an extensive rebuild by Midwest Locomotive andMachine Works. Currently the locomotive is in Seattle awaiting loading on abarge to begin its final leg of its journey to Skagway. Scheduled for arrivalMonday, July 18.

Bob,That was just what Hoped to see when I posted last week. With so many engines going south from Alaska, it is great to see one going north for a change.Thanks,Ted Miles

A couple of questions; How many of the locomotives that the WP&Y dropped into the river have been removed, and how many are left in the sand? Wasn't Steve Butler of North Lake involved in the removal of one of them? I can't get out of my mind the memory of reading somewhere that one of the ones removed from the river was going to be shipped to Wisconsin for either parts or some other reason. Can anyone else refresh me on this? One other question, the photo led me to the WP&R site and it has a list of all steam locomotives on the railroad. I noticed that one of the 190-200 series USA locomotives, #197 was scrapped in 1945. It was only 2 years old at the time. Can anyone else remember a non-prototype locomotive having such a short service life unless it was involved in a major accident? The #69 itself was built in 1908 and rebuilt in 1951, 6 years after they scrappec a two year old locomotive. I suppose that the 190's were not owned by the WP&R, but wow, it sure makes you think....Steve

The USA 2-8-2s were not well suited for service on the White Pass & Yukon route. They appear to be designed for flat land and light railroading.The company took three of them because it could not get new 70 class locomotives from Baldwin for a couple of years. The company bought more tenders from the Army to replace some of its own that needed replacement.The #69 was a better engine for the White Pass than the Army locomotives.Here are some numbers for comparison......................USA ..............WP&RY (ex-SV)....WP&YR.........WP&YR......................2-8-2 ............ 80 class .............70 class........#69drivers............48"................. 44".....................44"...............42"cylinder..........16x24 ............ 19x20.................17x22..........21x22eng wght .......118,000.......... 131,00................145,000.......133,000on drivers.........80,000.......... 95,000................108,000.......120,000boiler pres........185............... 170.....................220..............160heat. surface....1371sqft........1904sq ft.............1676sqft.......1857sqftTE.....................16,000........... 19,000................21,000..........24,000

Cool. Would you happen to have a reference handy that would equate these engines to the D&RGW 470 class (K-28) engines that came up from Colorado during the war, also to the two heavier classes that still run in Colorado?Does anyone have any idea why the odd placement of the cab on the 69? From the builder's photo, I see the placement is original, although the White Pass replaced the wood cab at some point. I remember seeing this locomotive at Hill City, SD many years ago, and I thought it was weird then, halfway between a deckless engine and a true camleback.

Here are some more comparisons between narrow gauge locomotives. The K-28 2-8-2 locomotives operated on both the Rio Grande and the White Pass. K-36 were built by BLW for the Rio Grande in 1925. The Columbian 4-8-2s were 3' gauge and built in 1947 with inside frames and feedwater heaters; this design was first supplied in 1942..........................................................................(ex-SV)......................D&RGW.....D&RGW......USA ..........WP&RY ......WP&YR........WP&YR........Columbia......................K-28..........K-36..........2-8-2 ........80 class ....70 class......#69............4-8-2......................1923..........1925.........194...........1920...........1938-47......1908..........1947drivers.............44"............44"...........48"............44"..............44".............42"............42"cylinder...........18x22........20x24.......16x24 .......19x20..........17x22........21x22........18.5x22eng wght .......156,000......187,100.....118,000.....131,00.........145,000.....133,000......179,000on drivers.......113,500......143,850.....80,000...... 95,000........108,000.....120,000.......122,000boiler pres......200.............195............185........... 170...............220............160............210heat. surface..1600 sqft....????..........1371sqft....1904sq ft.....1676sqft.....1857sqft.....2477sqftTE....................22,700......36,200.......16,000...... 19,000.........21,000........24,000.......30,500Hope this helps.

>A couple of questions; How many of the locomotives that the WP&Y dropped into the river have been removed,2> and how many are left in the sand? 4 plus a rotary snowplow>Wasn't Steve Butler of North Lake involved in the removal of one of them?no, but he did get one to restore.> I can't get out of my mind the memory of reading somewhere that one of the ones removed from the river was going to be shipped to Wisconsin for either parts or some other reason. Can anyone else refresh me on this? see above>One other question, the photo led me to the WP&R site and it has a list of all steam locomotives on the railroad. I noticed that one of the 190-200 series USA locomotives, #197 was scrapped in 1945. It was only 2 years old at the time. Can anyone else remember a non-prototype locomotive having such a short service life unless it was involved in a major accident?197 was scrapped in 1951, none were scrapped in 1945. There is more about them at:(http://www.whitepassfan.net/whitepass/h ... =0&thold=0) > The #69 itself was built in 1908 and rebuilt in 1951, 6 years after they scrappec a two year old locomotive. I suppose that the 190's were not owned by the WP&R, the 190s were owned by the US Army, After the war USA 198, 199, and 200 were withdrawn from service on the White Pass and Yukon and moved to Auburn TC Depot south of Seattle for storage by December 1945. The three were sold to the Hacienda Casa Grande Railway at Chicama Peru in January 1948. USA 198 become their No. 32, and USA 199, 200 became their No.18 and 19. There were reports of these locomotives until the early 70s.In 1946 the WP&YR purchased USA 192 and 196. Nos. 190, 193, 194, 195, and 197 were left in Skagway by the Army. Nos. 191, 193, 194, and 197 were scrapped in 1951. The WP&YR continued to operate 190, 192, and 196 into the late 50s. In 1960 No.190 was sold to Tweetsie RR at Blowing Rock, North Carolina, named "Yukon Queen", and is now preserved on the Tweetsie Railroad. In 1961 no. 192 was purchased by Rebel RR (now Dollywood Park) at Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, named "Klondike Kate", and is now preserved at Dollywood. In 1967 no.196 was buried in the Skagway River for rip rap to stabilize the right of way. No. 195 is displayed in Skagway.