I have heard the statement made (by others) "that the three functions of a university are a) scholarship, b) research and c) service."To expand further, I would assume that scholarship was in essense, education-research being self-explanatory and service meaning 'service to the community.'My thought is that the replacement of the word university by the wordmuseum would (in theory) make the statement no less true. In practice, one has to wonder.My point is-is there not more to the railroad museum game than the incessant collecting and (occasional) restoration and display of artifacts ?Does anybody routinely do things like collecting oral histories or creating programs that don't necessarily have to do with 'history of locomotive 999 on the XY&Z RR' ?Dave K

Dave, I know everyone has their own opinion, but I'll share mine on this one. I've been a staff member at one museum, ran a very large and active preservation group with a large fleet of equipment for several years, worked on countless excursions, been a director of a museum, and have visited a large number of museums and tourist lines in the eastern US. In my opinion, the O. Winston Link Museum in Roanoke is one of the best, simply because it puts railroading into the context of society in general. And they don't even own a single piece of equipment.

Charles Kettering and Alfred P. Sloan Jr. probably had more influence on how railroads operate than did any individual railroad president of the 20th Century. Engineering schools and hospitals are named for these men, but you seldom see any mention of them at a railroad museum. Why? Because they "aren't railroaders" and that makes them second class citizens in the view of many railroad historical intellectuals. And how many other people who "aren't railroaders" do you see mentioned at most railroad museums, regardless of how much impact they had on the industry? I would like to see railroad museums provide a wider perspective than most presently do.

Thirty some years ago, the Museum of Transportation in St. Louis had a program on the history of transportation that carried college credit.In later years there was a program run by an educator that was aimed at younger groups and cover transportation history and operations.The older program died along with the person that headed it.The later program is still carried on although on a somewhat reduced basis because the man who headed it retired. He carries on as a volunteer.Both of those people were paid staff members.The museum has extensive archives which are used mainly by outside researchers. Work is ongoing to get the material in a more usable shape.We still have a long way to go. Many authors have used our facilities and people from other museums have searched our archives in reasearching some of their exhibits.The tour guides try to gear their talks to the big picture and give an idea of how the artifact fit into the general scheme of transportation.The MOT is operated by a political body and has had to cut back on many services because of the usual budget problems.

The range of choices is so broad as there is probably no one good answer. At IRM we operate two libraries off site of the main collection. The Pullman library with over 100,000 original tracings and extensive other documentation; and the Strahorn Library with over 20,000 volumes and over 25,000 cataloged images. The Pullman is open by appointment for researchers and the Strahorn has limited regular open hours every week. Both of these represent expenses to the organization but we feel they are an essential element to our mission.There are many other elements such as our recreated woodworking shop using original Milwaukee Electric Railway shop tools and an extensive operating signal display with over 40 different examples of historic rr signals and types.You could go on and on. But the above examples are no less valid than a museum with a single caboose who conserves, protects, and displays same according the THEIR purpose and mission.Bob Kutella

We have had several experiences with recording oral history. The best was a documentary "Streetcar Snapshots" produced as a volunteer project by a professional. Several of the folks interviewed have died and others have since moved away. There are discussions of restoration on two cars that were destroyed in the fire. It is a terrific piece of work. The other oral history projects were done in house and await transcription to more accessible media.Our current educator, in a part-time paid position, has discovered several new children's books, including "Moove Over" - the story of a cow on a streetcar - and has incorporated them in our school program. We also have a hands-on table top activity for learning about how the Chevy Chase Land Company created the Rock Creek Railway to bring trolley service to their new suburban development in in 1890s.Wesley PaulsonNational Capital Trolley Museum

You'd have to include the Altoona Railroader's Museum in the list of non-typicals, because of their complete focus on the life of the people the railroad touched, with the equipment only in a background supporting role. That's very different from the typical equipment collection. I'll second the motion on the O Winston Link Museum, just got to see it. Much, much better than I expected, completely different from any other rail museum I've ever seen, and really does justice to the site, the photographer, and the N&W railroad in a way I didn't think was possible.In its own way Steamtown is also nontypical, because the repair shops are active and open, and there are so many non-typical displays, programs and views of the industry and impacts on a community and society. As the excursion is de-emphasized, some of the other activities have matured into something quite unusual and good in its own way. I love equipment collections myself, but I do watch a lot of eyes glaze over at museums that just stop there with no context or interpretation, let alone a year built and retired!

Small or large does not so much matter to me; but weather or not the visitor takes home something more than a train ride.The Western Railway Museum has a new DVD which is a tour of the museum and its collection and also contains historic footage showing electric operations of the cars before they came to the museum.for the researchers we have a Library and Archives, which recently has been used by Arcadia for their ongoing series of picture books. Soon they will bring out a volume on the Sacramento Northern by a BAERA member. Other recent volumes are on San Francisco Street Cars, Ocean Shore Railroad and others.It looks like a long time project of the Association to publish a book on the Key System Street Cars is moving ahead again.Aside from the scholarly elements; I also think that a museum should preserve its artifact collection. As far as street cars go that means in Car Barns. They are not pretty to look at but they sure are necessary! an incereasing number of traction museums are getting their collections indoors. This is a very important developement! There are three or four under construction as I write this.Ted Miles

The Western Railway Museum is also a member of the new Solano County (Calif.) Museum Coalition, which is working with county education officials to assess how all the museums in Solano County can serve as resources to help local schools meet state-mandated curriculum standards.Studying the state standards should help us improve our interpretive program for school groups.The result of this project will be a "resource guide" which will be distributed to schools in the county, and probably also in adjoining areas.This should increase our visibility in the community, and (hopefully) increase the number of school field trips to the museum.(And, since kids on field trips often ask their parents to bring them backfor another visit, it helps admissions..)

We catch a great deal of flack for our lack of rolling stock in Altoona but that is exactly the way the Museum was designed. We are in the process of weeding out the collection to only include those pieces we can interpret on the human side.This is why the Museum was named the "Railroaders Memorial" Museum and not the "Altoona Railroad" Museum. We tell the sociological and anthropological side of being a railroader and living in a railroad town as well or better than anyone in the world. While the exhibitry is very Altoona-centric, the stories are applicable to life in railroad towns all over the world.We have thousands of hours of oral history - both video and audio. We have an educational program, to include teacher guides and student lessons, entitled "All Aboard - The Story of Railroad Life and Labor" that is used by school districts all over Pennsylvania to meet various state curriculum mandates.As I eluded to in my article about the "reinvention" of our facility, a giant rolling stock collection is certainly one way to go but you cannot forget the "heritage tourist" who has no particular love of trains but a passion for the history surrounding where we Americans come from.Thanks

I think the best thing any RR museum can do for itself is to move it's "future restoration" projects FAR from the public area. Otherwise, it looks like a junkyard. I think that's Sacramento's greatest strength. Everything there is in great shape. Anything that isn't, gets moved over to the shops. Yes, it stinks that rail fans can't see the treasures they have there (a special shop tour each day would be great), but the end result is a very well-preserved collection gets seen by the public.

I suggest anyone interested in museum practice in our field should read the Recommended Practices of the ARM (http://www.railwaymuseums.org/Practices.htm). The 1st poster in this thread also asked about what to collect (such as oral histories)...the RP doesn't suggest what to collect (since each museum will have different goals), rather how to go about it. The ARM leadership is always looking for suggestions for how to make the RP better and more comprehsive.

This is an interesting question, which will generate tons of opinions.Like many other "opinion" type questions, I think the answers depend on a point of view. The unfortunate reality is that most, if not all, museum and restoration projects are subject to the public's viewpoints (from a funding standpoint) and as such may not be as "educational" in focus as we may desire, or at the least, have to temper some efforts in order to find a financial balance for other operational needs.For example, IRM, of which I am a member and frequent visitor, has to depend quite heavily on the Day Out with Thomas weekends for a sizeable chunk of yearly revenue. Does Thomas has anything to do with "real" railroading ? This question can be answered at your own risk.Does IRM, or any other group that sponsors Thomas, put it in perspective with the historical elements on permanent display ? Almost never, because the reality is that the general public isn't interested and these comparisons do cost money, they want their children to have the experience of Thomas, and learning isn't on the agenda for their day out.(The above is not an indictment of Thomas, IRM, or anyone else, simply an example of the compromises needed to fund and operate public sites)I was taught a long time ago that the reality is that museum and restoration groups may be built by, and heavily rely on, the "railfan" community, but the lifeblood is the public, the family just out to spend a quality afternoon at a reasonable price. The problem is finding a balance, having enough "non-educational" things (rides, etc) to attract public attention and dollars, and finding enough pennies out of that money to fund the educational aspects, quite honestly, preserving these things for the future as the present may not be nearly appreciative enough.The unfortunate reality is that even in 2005, most people think they know about railroads and trains, even steam locomotives which have been largely non-existent for 50 years,, the fact is that only a large period of time will put all of this into the right perspective. Yes, we all know that diesels replaced steam as a more flexible and cost effective option and thats how trains run today, but we're still a little too close to the past to put the efforts that got us to the current state of the art to be able to appreciate most of the aspects.Another example of this would be aviation preservation. Here's something that didn't exist little more than a hundred years ago, from the Wright Bros, to jets, to the Space Shuttle, to SpaceShipOne. A hundred years, start to finish, how many "classic" aircraft have been preserved, much less put into an educational perspective to show where we were, where we are now, and what came in between to get us here ? Technology and progress are non-stoppable steam rollers, and like our rail efforts, quite often you don't know what you have till it's gone.And once it's gone, it's very hard to educate.Education is an interesting thing. We strive as a society to implement, even enforce it, primarily in the formative childhood years. Once you've reached adulthood, it's a choice, not a requirement. Unfortunately, recreation reaches a higher point of interest for most people than continuing education, and when you further narrow your educational interest into the history of trains/railroads/etc, you're diminishing your focus group even further.So, what is a good example ?I don't beleive there is a single answer.My opinions of some things that should (where possible/feasible) be in place ?Signs, lots and lots of signs. Tell the story to people who won't otherwise know.Proctors and/or guides. A guided tour with someone to be able to tell the story. And not a minimum wage, summer job teenager (No disrespect) but someone with a knowledge and hopefully interest/love of the subject who will be able to flesh out more than just the details (Caution needed here, no one wants their 1 hour tour to be a 50 min talk about someone's favorite piece of equipment at the expense of the rest of the tour)Open the "back-areas" Show the restoration, preservation, and storage aspects. Put it into perspective so that the public understands the efforts needed to make just one caboose nice and shiny, much less operable.Reading back over this, I guess the single answer is knowledge. We all have it and it needs to be shared. If knowledge isn't shared it's useless.It's like being a millionaire. If you're dead and buried with your million bucks, it goes from being a million bucks to just useless paper. (Unless someone finds out and digs it up !) Knowledge is the same thing, unless used and/or shared, it's just a bunch of thoughts you used to have that disappear when you're gone. Finding the best ways to get that knowledge out, and preserving it is the challenge, and this site is a good way to share those thoughts and ideas.Just one man's opinion (okay, bunch of opinions)

What makes a “good” railroad museum? Indulge me in a little tongue-in-cheek reasoning by analogy.If we start with the position that “good” should be from the perspective of the general public, not “subject matter experts”, we on this Board don’t have the right perspective, since we are experts. So instead of taking about Iron Horse Museums, lets talk about just plain Horse Museums, since I am not a subject matter expert on horses. As I see it there would three types of “horse” museums equivalent to: Natural History Museums, Zoos, and “living” Farm Museums. (We can consider zoos since the American Association of Museums has decreed that zoos are museums)At the Natural History Museum of the Horse we will probably see the bones of a prehistoric horse, an artists recreation of what such a horse looked like, and a lot of academic information about when and where horses originated, how they evolved over the years, and how they relate to today’s modern horse. We might even see a modern horse stuffed and mounted on a pedestal. We’ll even get to learn the Latin name for each sub-species. But we won’t actually see a real, live horse, and probably won’t learn much about what horses are really like, or the importance of horses to human civilization.At the Zoo we probably won’t find a modern domestic horse – nobody would pay to see one since they are not rare enough -- but we might find “displayed” a few exotic breeds from somewhere else. If its an old-fashioned zoo, following accepted zoo good practices from 50 years ago, each species will be indoors, in a small glass fronted cage, collected together with similar objects in the Mammal House. Each will be alive and carefully protected from the elements but in a very sterile and not particularly attractive environment. The lighting will be excellent and we can get very close (since the cages are very small) and visually inspect them in great detail. Taking good natural-looking pictures will be hard, since we can’t get far enough away for the proper perspective. A sign on the cage giving us all sorts of facts and figures, probably not as detailed as at the Natural History Museum. But it left to our imagination how the design of a horse allows it to run fast.At a modern zoo, things would be different. The collection of horses would no longer be displayed in small cages indoors, but in relatively large, outdoor enclosures approximating the natural surroundings that horses were designed for. All the species of horses from around the world might be “displayed” together, making them easier to compare with each other, even though they would never have been together in the wild. They are harder to inspect closely because they are not as close by, and they aren’t standing still much. They are fueling up or running around, doing what horses were designed to do. There may be a sign our two but the emphasis is not on an academic listing of information important to the experts, but on learning about wild horses by “experiencing” wild horses. The Latin names probably won’t be as prominent.At the Living Farm Museum, horses will be displayed doing the work that made the domestic horse such a crucial part of civilization for thousands of years. We can actually experience horses in “freight” service (pulling wagons, perhaps even double-headed!). We would probably be able to take a ride in a carriage behind a horse in passenger service, once a common experience now very rare. We can not only see horses, we can touch them, smell them, feel them, and really :know" horses. We can learn about horses with all five senses, clearly understand how they influenced recent civilization, and just as clearly understand why they are no longer particularly relevant as beasts of burden. We won’t learn much about where horses originated, how they evolved, how many horses there were each decade since 1680, or even learn the Latin name.So which is the “good” horse museum for the non-expert? As a fully qualified non-expert with only a casual interest in the subject matter, I wouln’t go across the street to visit the Natural History Museum. I might visit once, but would quickly get bored with, the old-fashioned Zoo with its indoor, Mammal House approach. But I would enjoy a visit, and probably a second and third visit to the modern Zoo and the Living Farm Museum, and learn the things I consider worth learning about horses, a subject in which I have only a casual interest. And I don’t need to know the Latin names.How about you? Which will educate you on the aspects of horses you care about? Which would you go back to time and time again and want to experience with children. Which would you recommend to others? Which is most worthy of your donation, or of taxpayer support? Which makes the greatest contribution to society? Which would you be most proud to be associated with?So back to the question – what constitutes a “good” railroad museum? I’m not qualified here, since I consider myself an expert in railroads and have been associated with railway museums almost continuously for 45 years, so I can’t know what the general public wants. But I can apply the analogy of the horse museum and take a pretty good guess.Peter Schmidt

Thanks for all the input.There is so much good food for thought that I am going to cut and paste thismaterial into a word document for a thorough read and interpretation.Dave K