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| By Their Driving Wheels Ye Shall Know Them https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18253 |
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| Author: | softwerkslex [ Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | By Their Driving Wheels Ye Shall Know Them |
Movie: From Russia With LoveJust watching Bond on AMC tonight. Ever closely examine the various trains posing as Istanbul - Italy expresses? Most of them are close, Greek if not Turkish (one is a British Southern region express). But there is one scene midway in the train journey where the camera pans what appears to be the boxpok drivers of a mountain type (4-8-2) of North American origin. Any guesses on its identity?p.s. the Istanbul scenes have many sidewheel steamers in the background, ferries and freighters. |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: By Their Driving Wheels Ye Shall Know Them |
In all probability you were watching "Octopussy", which included among its credits the Nene Valley Railway (or "International Railway Centre", as the credits called it), at Wansford near Peterborough, England. I recall seeing a bunch of German steamers depicted, but looking over a roster from 1985 I see a bunch of various light Scandinavian steamers which could probably pass as "Turkish", an SNCF 4-6-0, a DB 2-6-2T, a Southern Railway 4-COR unit (that Southern Region express?), and--lo and behold, SR Bullied Pacific 34081 92 Squadron, which happens to have what we would call Boxpok drivers.Now, if you were watching "Goldfinger" or "Live and Let Die", I dunno what to tell you. (^_^) |
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| Author: | Ted Miles [ Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: By Their Driving Wheels Ye Shall Know Them |
I have also watched some of those James Bond classics. Boy did he have it easy; there were good guys and bad guys, ie the KGB.Anyway the ships, ferries and boats shown are about gone. None of the side wheel ferrys were saved; one of the screw ferrys did make it into the local maritime museum.The museum also has an ex US Navy fleet sumbarine from WWII. The Turkish Navy had two but gave the other to the new Naval Museum in Little Rock, AK. Some American submarine fans made a sound and video documentry of diving the boat; but I do not believe theyare allowed to show it until the last sub is retired.They tell me that all the sound effects that you have ever heard in a sub movie are pure Holllywood.Ted Miles |
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| Author: | survivingworldsteam [ Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: By Their Driving Wheels Ye Shall Know Them |
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote: In all probability you were watching "Octopussy", which included among its credits the Nene Valley Railway (or "International Railway Centre", as the credits called it), at Wansford near Peterborough, England. I recall seeing a bunch of German steamers depicted, but looking over a roster from 1985 I see a bunch of various light Scandinavian steamers which could probably pass as "Turkish", an SNCF 4-6-0, a DB 2-6-2T, a Southern Railway 4-COR unit (that Southern Region express?), and--lo and behold, SR Bullied Pacific 34081 92 Squadron, which happens to have what we would call Boxpok drivers. But he said a 4-8-2, not a 4-6-2. That narrows things down considerably; there are only 50 4-8-2s in North America, the UK, Europe, and Asia.The only ones built during the 1950s were built by Skoda in the former Czechoslovakia. It wouldn't be those.Both Skoda and the French built them during the late 1940s. The Japanese built a few as well; only one survives.All 19 surviving American built 4-8-2s remain here in the States. So if the wheel arrangement is correct; it had to have been filmed here.-James Hefner Hebrews 10:20a Surviving World Steam Project
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| Author: | softwerkslex [ Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: By Their Driving Wheels Ye Shall Know Them |
Listen now, it was late but not that late. It was "From Russia With Love", not "Octopussy". It was the restored wide screen version on AMC.It was not Scandinavia.The engine had boxpok drive wheels, a delta trailing truck, and I believe Andrews tender trucks. I forget the valve gear. Very plain black paint and oil stained side rods. |
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| Author: | johnacraft [ Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: By Their Driving Wheels Ye Shall Know Them |
survivingworldsteam wrote: there are only 50 4-8-2s in North America, the UK, Europe, and Asia. . . All 19 surviving American built 4-8-2s remain here in the States. So if the wheel arrangement is correct; it had to have been filmed here. You're assuming the footage was filmed for this movie. It's more likely that some, most or all of the railroad shots are stock footage. There weren't any US 4-8-2s running round in 1963, when the movie was filmed, and why waste budget when a train is a train is a train?Next time you watch "White Christmas," note the AT&SF and SP trains running from Florida to Vermont.If it's a 4-8-2, it's probably some SP engine shot long before and pulled off the shelf for the first, second, or umpteenth time.JAC
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| Author: | survivingworldsteam [ Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: By Their Driving Wheels Ye Shall Know Them |
Then I stand by my statement that it was filmed stateside, and not overseas. Unless they used stock film; there are only two of 4-8-2s that have been operational in recent decades:* Frisco 1522* CNR 6060 (streamlined - "Bullet Nosed Betty")I think 6060 has boxpok wheels; I am not sure about 1522.-James Hefner Hebrews 10:20a Surviving World Steam Project |
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| Author: | Fitz [ Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: By Their Driving Wheels Ye Shall Know Them |
1522 ran with spoked drivers on 1,3, and 4. The main driver set (2) was either Boxpok or Disc. |
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| Author: | Frisco1522 [ Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: By Their Driving Wheels Ye Shall Know Them |
1522 has spoked 1,3 and 4 and the main driver is a Scullin Disc. It also has 6 wheel Commonwealth tender trucks. I thnk the movie was made before we had her running also. |
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| Author: | softwerkslex [ Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: By Their Driving Wheels Ye Shall Know Them |
Everybody's getting soft. Remember the days when Trains used to ask readers to identify fourteen engines from pictures of a single driver?Maybe I was wrong about the Andrews trucks. Any SP 4300 class have Boxpok drivers? |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: By Their Driving Wheels Ye Shall Know Them |
And it took no less of an expert than Bob Le Massena about 12 hours to identify the whole lot of them.Check your early 1980's issues if you want to play. |
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| Author: | scrmcurator [ Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: By Their Driving Wheels Ye Shall Know Them |
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote: And it took no less of an expert than Bob Le Massena about 12 hours to identify the whole lot of them.Check your early 1980's issues if you want to play. Aw, a REAL expert could not only tell what engine it is, but be able to identify and date the picture's location and photographer as well as tell what direction the train was going, how many cars it had, and name at least 10 people on board.If I had a bit more time I'd offer to play host to that game by posting driver photos here. ;0)
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| Author: | Jim Livesey [ Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: By Their Driving Wheels Ye Shall Know Them |
From memory "From Russia with Love" had daylight railway scenes shot in European Turkey, mainly in the Istanbul terminal station. The train is seen "departing" there behind a TCDD (Turkish Railways) 2-8-0 of the 45501 to 45518 series. These were lightweight locos built in France in 1924 and 1927. Outside the Istanbul suburban area the track in European Turkey could only take very light axle loads.The night "en route" shots sadly, after the accurate location shots used earlier, appear to have used stock footage. I do not remember the north american 4-8-2 but have clear memory of the LM Region "Royal Scot" hauling green Southern Region coaches. I think this was possibly original black and white film which was inacurately coloured afterwards."From Russia with Love" is due to be shown on TV in my part of the UK this coming Saturday evening. I will watch or tape it and report back.Jim L. |
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