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| Coal Question https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18343 |
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| Author: | Warren [ Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Coal Question |
This might be a bit out the scope of this site, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.We were fortunate to recieve abot 4 tons of coal from what was left in the bottom of 614's tender last year for use in our 30" gauge Shay. This had to be the best coal I've ever had the pleasure of chucking into a firebox,it was all graded to about 2-3" chunks,lit quick,burned with very little smoke, had a very low ash content,was free from slate and clay,which meant no clinkers and was predictable in how much you had to scoop into the engine for the amout of steam you needed to make. Anyhow...The question is, no one seems to know for definite sure,where the coal was from and what grade it was. It was speculated that it was Pocohantas #2, but no one really knows. Does anyone know what the 614 burned last and where it was obtained? Maybe a former engine crew member would know and can help us out? We would like to get about 20 tons or so of it if it's reasonable in price, and not have a repeat of purchasing the junk we have now.Thanks. |
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| Author: | Rich Melvin [ Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Question |
Many years ago we established specifications for coal used in the 765 that have served us very well. These specs are similar to what the 614 would have used. The specs are: 12,500 btu per lb. minimum This is the heat value and is an indication of how much volatile matter is in the coal. Higher is better. Less than 4% ash We have used coal with up to 8% ash, but it's a lot of work for the fireman to keep the fire clean at that level. Fusion temperature higher than 2,500 degrees F This makes the coal "clinker proof." The "Fusion Temperature" is the temperature at which the ash melts. The temperature of the firebed at its hottest will be approximately 2,500 degrees F. If the fusion temperature is higher than this, the ash never melts, thus no clinkers will form. Other parameters, such as sulfur and moisture content are not nearly as important at these key specs. We have never bothered to spec these items because coal that meets these heat, ash and fusion temperature specs will already have suitable sulfur and moisture content specs.This type of coal is available in the Pocahontas region as well as many of the eastern Kentucky and West Virginia coal fields. There may also be some coal fields in Ohio that can match these specs. Anyone in the coal business will understand these specs. |
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| Author: | k5ahudson [ Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Question |
Tower Fuel in near Chicago is a supplier of good West Virginia coal which many tourist railroads use.1939 Waukegan Rd Ste 207Glenview, IL 60025(847) 729-2430 |
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| Author: | Dave Stephenson [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Question |
What would the collective opinion be of two batches of coal with the following specs?1 - 12,700 btu, 14% ash, 49% fixed carbon2 - 11,200 but, 18% ash, 46% fixed carbonNo record of fusion temperature in either caseI believe they would be sufficiently poor to compromise performance and fuel consumption.Thanks for any help you can give me! |
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| Author: | Rich Melvin [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Question |
With those ash content specs, I hope you don't mind if I mark off for this trip. I sure don't want to try to fire with that junk.Seriously, we have used coal in the 765 with as high as 10% ash, and it was an absolute nightmare! I cannot imagine what a mess coal with 18% ash would make. You would have to stop and drop the ashes every 20 miles! |
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| Author: | Dave Stephenson [ Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Question |
Thanks for the information! It doesn't get any better than hearing it firsthand. |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Question |
Years ago, Ross Rowland mentioned in an article done on either 2101 or 614 in Chessie days a preference for a very specific mine's coal from the Pocahontas region, noting at the time that it was about four times more expensive than more routinely available coal and worth every cent of the extra cost (as you might agree, having apparently tried the same stuff). You might want to contact Ross directly, see if he chimes in here, or search your back issues of Railfan & Railroad. Luckily, with energy prices skyrocketing, it's more likely this year than a couple years ago that the mine in question will still be producing coal. Whether or not from the same vein, I don't know. |
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| Author: | J.David [ Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Question |
Dear Warren:Another issue to consider is "volitle content" The higher (over 15-18%) the volitle content coal smokes more than low volitle coal. At the Valley Railroad we burn coal from Tower Fuel. Their Pocahontas from near Blue Field, WV is about 17% and burns almost smoke free. We need this due to operating in a populated area. Good luck. J.David |
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| Author: | Warren [ Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Question |
Thanks for all the information guys. I will ask our coal buyer if he got a analysis of the "fuel" he recently purchased and see what it claims to be. I will alsoglean all the specifications from the various posted replys and pass them on to our buyer. Thanks again! |
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| Author: | Warren [ Tue May 30, 2006 3:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Question |
Well, we bit the bullet and have a few tons of the good coal from Tower Fuel coming our way. It's being delivered straight from the mine in West Virginia to our coal pile in eastern Pennsylvania. It wasn't cheap ($134.00/ton delivered) , but if it's the same stuff we offloaded from the 614's tender, we'll be a happy bunch of campers. I'll let you know how it works out. Again,thanks to all for the input and assistance,it is really appreciated. |
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| Author: | co614 [ Wed May 31, 2006 11:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Question |
I second everything Rich Melvin said in spades!! We buy all our coal through Tower Fuel Co. in Chicago per the above message. They can tell you which mine we prefer. I believe we also pay a small premium($3/ton?) to have it triple screened and oil washed. This virtually eliminates any fines(dirt&dust) and insures uniform size. It's expensive fuel but worth every penny!! The last thing you want on the mainline with a 20 something car consist trying to maintain track speed is lousy fuel!! Burn the best-it pays!! Ross Rowland |
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