The comments about the disposition of the CN 5288 brings up a favorite pet peeve of mine.

There are several engines whose physical locations seem to cause great distress. I'm thinking of the DL&W 952, the LNE 207, the Rdg 2100 and the Alco PA's.

You have to remember years ago, these engines ceased being assets to their owners and became JUNK, cluttering the real estate. That's why of the tens of thousands of steam engines that once existed, something less than 1500 survive.

Similarly, the reason the 5288 is in the U.S., the reason that the LNE 207 and the DL&W 952 are in territory they never ran in and the reason that the 2100 and the PA's were expatriated was because, they went where they had a home. In some cases, it was the highest bidder, but as often as not they went to the only place that would accept them.

I'm near Steamtown and I'd have like to have seen the 5288 STAY. Unfortunately, this is a world of limits and priority right now is to get the 3713 running.

So, the best offer came from the nice folks at TVRM. When you own something and decide it is for sale, you obtain the best deal you can to enhance your own position whether the price is cash or services. There was nothing secret about the disposition of this engine. Thats why its headed South. The TVRM won. Now wish them well.

When the 2100 was up for sale, Tom Payne made the best offer. There was considerable griping about the T-1's expatriation but now that its up for sale, I don't see anybody rushing to bring it "home".

So please, lets just applaud anyone who takes the time to preserve our North American rail heritage. The goal should be to maximize the number sustainable operating engines. Would you rather see it run or rust? If a trade can be worked out to bring an engine "home" thats nice, but secondary to ensuring its operation.

I'm happy to see the CP 2816 back with her original owner, not because that's where she "belongs" but because it'll run and be maintained.

The goal should be to maximize the number sustainable operating egines. If a trade can be worked out to bring an engine "home" thats nice, but secondary to ensuring its operation.

You want an engine "home"? Form a group, make an offer. Join a museum, work hard and get on the board. Perhaps a swap can be worked out. Or maybe not. Sometimes people just want to keep things THEY'VE adopted and cared for.

The preservation movement always seems to be at each others throat. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

A museum is an organization entrusted to permanently care for and display items that is historic in nature. Once something is enshrined in a "Museum" it is no longer thought of as private property. In a museum these items exist to tell a story, show beauty, explain a technology, or present a way of life. We have museums here in the US that have way more than they can handle and continue to acquire more equipment. Steamtown is doing the right thing in finding homes for this equipment and I only hope none of it gets sent to scrap. We can debate where this stuff ends up but sending it someplace else is better than allowing it to rot at Steamtown.

The sad fact is that there are places that call themselves museums that have received equipment from railroads that was restored before donation. This restored equipment was allowed to sit and rot until it was unsightly and then it was shoved out of public sight to rot some more. Now this once restored equipment is almost gone due to neglect yet new equipment continues to be added to the collection.

I am happy to see this stuff leave Steamtown and encourage all museums to look at what they really need, what they can take care of permanently, and find some good homes for the equipment we all treasure so much before it is too late.


Steam Railroading Message Board

> Once something is enshrined in a "Museum" it s no longer thought of as private property.

The process I think you are referring to is accessioning (pardon spelling). I believe I am correct in saying that none of the Canadian locomotive were accessioned into Steamtown's collection.

Therefore, they are free to dispose of the 5288 in any way that is consistent with U.S. law, in as much as they represent the interests of U.S. taxpayers.

You may not think of old locomotives as private property, but ultimately they are, no matter what we like to think. Either an asset earns its keep, has its way subsidized or it cannot survive.

I think this is the problem at some museums, they treat their equipment as so precious only THEY can care for it. So they spread their resources way to thin.

Enshrinement is a different concept. I'd reserve that for the day they find Noah's Ark.

Tom said:

"I am happy to see this stuff leave Steamtown
and encourage all museums to look at what
they really need, what they can take care of
permanently, and find some good homes for
the equipment we all treasure so much before
it is too late. "

I say: "Amen" Very well stated.


JimLundquist55@yahoo.com

Where is the best place for equipment to go, is a question that has plagued this hobby for a long time. Where some argue that due to geographical location a particular piece should be near its original home and rightly so. But,a piece preserved is also a piece preserved.

Why shouldn't a Museum acquire an unwanted piece if the opportunity arises? If it is unwanted by it's owners and in danger of destruction, the piece does not care if it is rusting in a park or in a museum grounds. At least it is prote cted from people who don't care about railroad preservation at all. And there are a lot of those out there.

Many museums acquire pieces for many reasons, mainly being the opportunity is there. Though this may not fit in the scheme of museum it allows th em to at least show people an example of what a certain type of equipment is like. It also gives them trade bait if something they would like to have does become available. Lately the most endangered,rare,least glamorous,and most acquirable pieces are bei ng save regardless of location of origin. These are the cabooses, freight cars, passenger cars, and interurban cars that have found themselves far from home,far from rails and long since removed from the persons who purchased them from the railroads. Thes e are the ranchers tool sheds and hunting/vacation cottages, usually wooden in bad condition and PRICELESS pieces of history. Some have been restored beautifully( in the case of IRM's Wabash Valley car , East Troy's Millwaukee car),some haven't seen any w ork, but they also aren't going to get bulldozed or torched.

Today people cry for the return of their equipment, well you should have stepped to the plate when it was dispositioned. TVRR is a very reputable group, they do outstanding work for themselves and plenty of others. They are an asset to railroad preservation. We don't even know if they own the engine or just going to asess and work on it( I have not heard a peep that they do, only that the engine is being shipped there).

As a final note, IT I S UP TO YOU, only you, to prevent further decay, record ,save and see operational the equipment you love. Museums are desperate for money and maybe even more desperate for volunteer hours. I have seen this plea on the Pennsy 1361 site for labor ,yet there is little response, and only questions of when they will be finished. For being an engine of the Standard Operating Railroad of the world and probably having the largest base of railfans this project should be done. Knowone ever knows everything,there is something always to be learned, and you may not be running the whole show but you are needed. Donate what you can , never cheat the museum out of admission or rides. And most of all get involved.∑

Ryoungceo@yahoo.com

The Altoona Railroader's Memorial Museum is also in the process of doing what Steamtown has done. They are thinning their Rolling Stock Collection to represent only those pieces that relate to the focus of the museum,or are products of Altoona, or have special significance to the Central Allegheny region of the State of Pennsylvania.

This is by far the most enlightened way for most museums to insure that the funding they have to maintain "exhibits" can be applied to things that relate to the story they want to tell. There are several pieces that might do well at other locations and the BoD of the ARMM is trying hard to see that what is being thined goes to locations that have the ability to maintain as well as some thread to the "story" of the piece.

If more museums would try to rationally part with items that might be better interperted at other locations, then they would also postpone the effects of the "grim reapper" of outdoor storage and marginal interest.

v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net

>
> reserve that for the day they find Noah's
> Ark.

Completely off topic, but a Catholic friend of mine SWEARS that they HAVE found Noah's Ark.


Wowak.Railfan.Net
mrwowak@yahoo.com

Well said Rich! If the TVRM can give this loco a home, or if they only use it for trading material, we all at least know it is going to have a secure home for the time being.

The local problem we're encountering is where to store and maintain equipment when we don't own, rent, or lease land. One local group bought several passenger cars and had a rent agreement that was later terminated, they were able to relocate, but after years of free rent, a managment change has brought a $10.00 a day storage fee. Multiply this by a dozen or so cars, of course many are friction bearing, and they now have a big problem on thier hands.

So the big picture, IMO, is not to restore every piece of equipment today, but aquire property and shelter so the equipment can be restored tomorrow.

Congrats TVRM, and best of luck!!

D.B.

out.

smokebox1@home.com