| Railway Preservation News https://www.rypn.org/forums/ |
|
| Memories of steam are fading... https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18663 |
Page 1 of 3 |
| Author: | bobyar2001 [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Memories of steam are fading... |
I found this recent 3985 newspaper piece interesting. http://www.journalnet.com/articles/2005 ... 01.txtThey interviewed more general spectators than enthusiasts, and it seems only the great grandfather in the crowd had more than a fleeting memory of steam locomotives.At the Grand Canyon Railway a couple of years ago, I saw something similar. As their clientele is largely senior, I expected to find numerous geezers admiring the engine, waxing romantic about their father who was an engineer, riding on troop trains, etc.. But myself and a mother with her young son were the only ones nearby. Up at the Canyon, the scene was the same. I've since met several people older than myself who could not differentiate between a steam and diesel locomotive. When the Chinese 2-8-2 came up to Vermont, I expected big crowds to view the unusual sight; few came.Of the railroaders I work with, only one has memories of steam in revenue service, and he is 69 years old, with no plans to retire. My Colorado boyhood enabled me to see steam into adolescence, but I'll be 60 next year.Likewise, I note the chain bookstores seldom offer more than a handful of railroad books (usually the coffee table type), sandwiched among a couple hundred others on farm tractors and trucks. This leads me to wonder what will happen to all our various projects when we're no longer here... No doubt there will be some historical interest, but the nostalgia factor seems to be about gone. |
|
| Author: | mxdata [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Memories of steam are fading... |
Its not just that the memories are fading. In several of the enthusiast groups where I am a member, virtually everyone coming to the meetings is my age or older (50s+). You seldom see anybody younger than 40 presenting a lecture or program either. And in some of these groups (particularly NRHS chapters) there is very little effort to promote the group or their events to the public. When you mention this to the officers, they don't seem to view it as a matter for concern.Steam is not alone in being forgotten. Several generations of people who worked for diesel locomotive manufacturers have passed away now, taking vast knowledge and experience with them, and except for a very few who took their own time and effort to write books, they have received very little attention from the preservation community. Try and find any organization actively pursuing a spoken history project relating to people who worked for EMD, ALCO, FM, or Baldwin and you will see what I mean. Recording the history of the folks who worked for railroads is often given a vastly higher priority than preserving the knowledge of the people who designed and built the equipment operated by the railroads. |
|
| Author: | Ray Reter [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Memories of steam are fading... |
I think what we are seeing is a societal change here in the USA. Not only railroad history organizations are experiencing this phenomenon, other organizations are seeing this, too. I think that, generally speaking, the under 50 age group is less inclined to participate in group activities. With so many activities now available to fill-up our discretionary time, there simply isn't enough time for people to get actively involved in these special interest groups, much less donate time for managing these organizations. -- Ray |
|
| Author: | Don C. [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Memories of steam are fading... |
I was with Milwaukee Road #261 in Kansas City last Thursday, Friday and Saturday while it was displayed at the Grand Opening of the K.C. Rail Experience. I was surprised and pleased by the number of young children (12 and under) who turned out with their parents (usually the mother) to see the locomotive and train. I had several parents tell me that their boys were huge "train fans" and ate, slept, drank and lived for trains. After the display was closed for the day, I made it a point to invite these families inside of the fencing for a close-up look at the locomotive. I had one seven year old boy sit on my lap in the engineer's seat so he could blow the whistle (he needed a little help from me) and ring the bell. Every one of the parents knew that getting the little ones involved in a hobby at an early age meant that they might avoid some of the problems associated with growing up and having too much unsupervised time on their hands. I experienced a nearly identical incident when we were stopped between Muscatine and Nahant on the IC&E while we were returning home from K.C. on Tuesday. We were blocked by a cut of cars on the mainline, left while a local doubled the hill into a steel mill. A crowd gathered and a mother with two young boys and a dog showed up to look at #261. I walked up and engaged the mother in conversation. She told me how much the boys loved trains and if she drove past the road leading into the IC&E yard at Nahant without turning into the yard, the boys would start raising a ruckus to go watch trains. If our hobby and hard work is to endure, we must not only preserve the artifacts, we must create "preservationists." I try to speak with anyone who comes to visit #261 and the train but I single out the kids and their parents to engage in conversation for this very reason. They would not be visiting if there wasn't at least a passing interest. I hope that the chance to see the train and locomotive "up close" and visit the cab will be enough for the kids to want to come back and also show mom and dad where their children's interests lie. Any hobby must be cultivated and we must work to perpetuate our interests within other interested parties. Make it a point to try this next time you are working around your equipment and look for little eyes to sparkle and little mouths to ask questions. You will be delightfully rewarded for your efforts.Don C. |
|
| Author: | Onder [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Memories of steam are fading... |
Ive mumbled similar thoughts. Looking through UKpreserved railway news you see so many gray heads.Sure, they bring out the grandkids but I dont seevery many 20-40. There are some, but asyou say, the memories are with the old guys. Yesin UK steam quit in '67 so those in their50s or even later 40's remember. But for most, it is not even on their radar.So preservationists have two missions forthe next ten years: get the collection undercover and get the kids involved. |
|
| Author: | Christian S. [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Memories of steam are fading... |
[redacted] |
|
| Author: | christensenge [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Accidental duplicate posting |
Duplicate |
|
| Author: | christensenge [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Memories of steam are fading... |
Hi Bob,You have expressed the conundrum of preservation.We individually can never save something beyond our appointed spans. Ultimately we must leave our work to others. Our challenge is therefore, two-fold. First, we must restore and preserve our artifacts to ensure their physical existence into the next generation. And second, we must motivate those in the next generation to appreciate the trust, which they will one day inherit.Any historical endeavor that does not embrace this dichotomy is risking the fate of that which they would most dearly love to preserve.My thoughts.Sincerely,Glenn |
|
| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Memories of steam are fading... |
I remember the very last of steam as a very little boy whose father worked for the LIRR. Having chased steam and and worked around it for some years between my mid-teens and the present, I think something else is at work here. A steam locomotive has to be experienced. It has to be smelled, felt, listened to. Steam locomotives are a totally sensory experience, and this is where an operable engine makes the difference. I would defy anyone who stood close enough to tracks while a hot NKP Berkshire rolled through at speed, to not be moved by it. And I think there is a difference between large, heavy, behemoth locomotives and smaller engines. Small locos are objects of affection, ala' "Thomas" and "Petticoat Junction". But a 3985 or 1218, a 759 or 765, especially an oily one covered in grime, is just something of awe. I think that is what bonded humans to the railroads in the golden age. No communities ( or darn few) have ever requested the railroads to donate a Diesel to their public park, but with steam...well, the original thought was one of respect for what was a recent memory. Nobody has ever requested a Trailways bus for the public park, have they?Steam needs to be operated. It needs to be out where people have access to it at high speed, under a load. We are in a steam slump right now, but I don't think it will last forever. In the meanwhile, groups like the folks who rebuilt NKP 765 and Milw 261, as well as Doyle and the UP do the rest of us a huge service by keeping large steam operable. IMHO, it will take a highly vocal and motivated cadre of railfans to turn things around with large companies, but until they are put in a place where a positive response is the only response acceptable, we will wait. I am not saying that we should get ugly; far from it. I think the companies need to hear that steam revival is in their best public interest. It may not make the bottom line sweeter, but it will garner them visibility and maintain a popular face before the public. |
|
| Author: | tomgears [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The future of steam |
At 39, I never lived in the steam age here but I got the steam bug from the local tourist railroad. I ended up working in stationary engineering and found my way to teaching power plant technology in a vo-tech school. Yes there are people to follow in the footsteps to keep the old girls in good care. I do think a steam engine is still a major attraction for any tourist railroad and will be in another 50 years. |
|
| Author: | Melanie [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Memories of steam are fading... |
Glenn and Richard,Well put, both of you.One of the best ways to truly understand the steam era is to experience a live, full scale steam operation. To convey to the public what "the railroad" meant to many cities, towns, and villages is extremely difficult these days.Let's work together, educate the public, and hope for the light bulb to click on in the mind of the "general public". The impact of the railroads on American history (economy, natural history, popular culture, etc.) should not be forgotten. (And let's not forget the "51%" of the population here, shall we fans?)Regards,Melanie |
|
| Author: | Txhighballer [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Memories of steam are fading... |
I was born in 1963,well after the reign of steam. I grew up listening to stories from my uncle and grandfather,career railroaders during the steam era. I knew I wanted to be an engineer at the tender age of three. My first exposure was in 1968,when I saw the Flying Scotsman come by my grandfathers' farm in Navasota, Texas. Eight years later, at that same farm, I witnessed the thunderous passage of 610 on the Freedom Train. Being a locomotive engineer was a goal..after seeing the 610,it was an obsession. Fast forward a few years and now I'm qualified to run both. Steam is not dead.....not from what I saw beng a member of the 745 crew in Louisana. People went out of their way to help us,feed us,and show us how much they appreciated us bringing the 745 to their communities. At towns where we didn't stop,people...young people,old people, male and female, black and white and brown, came out to witness the passage of a piece of history that in many cases had not seen steam since the Freedom Train. Steam has a future,not only on tourist lines but on main lines as well. Remember,the UK had it's "dark period" when the only steam allowed to run was the Flying Scotsman. Now steam can be found on many lines on excursions in the UK. For all of us who maintain them and run them,the way we might have to do it in the future might change.The future might involve running for sponsors for display purposes,or the railroads' bidding. Carrying passengers might be something that might be a rare thing.Insurance, relationships with railroads and their comfort level with us being out there moderate with the times,but steam we will for a long time to come. I honesty don't know how many people all of us have converted to loving steam.....how many were converted by the Southern? time will tell,but we have to keep working.....and we have to keep running! |
|
| Author: | pm-man [ Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Speaking as one of the 20-40 crowd... |
Many great comments here. A few of my own comments with steam/ railroading in general:1.) I was born in 1975. Although my dad told me he took me to see it, I don't even remember seeing the AFT, which I have found at times immediately puts me "behind the 8-ball" so to speak with some (thankfully their number is declining though) railfans/ steam guys. If you didn't see steam in regular service, you are somehow not qualified to like steam, or hang with them. This is why a certain TRAINS magazine's columnist, a gentleman up until then I admired, set the entire profession back by a single column about how we young people were somehow not worthy as railfans becuase we weren't dropping ever dollar we had to fly off to China to see the last of steam. The arrogance of that individual, who shall remain nameless, pretty much confirmed what I thought many over 50-steam lovers were like --- not fair on my part, but he acted as if anybody younger than him wasn't worthy, so it seemed fair at the time. 2.) My first memories of steam are the Marquette & Huron Mountain trips I took with my parents on our annual trek to the U.P, of Michigan. For about three summers I watched ex-LS&I #23 haul tourists up to Eagle Bay in the late 1970's early 1980's. Close to that was the Chessie Steam Special, which I remembered more for its colors at the time that what was hauling it, but it made an impression. In turn, frequent trips to the Huckleberry Railroad and Henry Ford Museum also helped.3.) My godfather and his family owned a small, all ALCO, industrialized road known as the Port Huron & Detroit until 1984. I have very fond memories of those ALCOS, as I got cab rides a few times a year between the 32nd Street yard and Marysville/ St. Clair. I also remember crews on the GTW "Dunn Paper" local near my house being very friendly as well, which was usually under a #4400-series Geep with the occassional chance in the cab. Hence, I have a bit of a fondance for early Geeps too. Both smoked a lot, and my 4 year old brain probably put them in the same steam category.4.) I never touched steam until I started volunteering at OC in 2003. Until then, I thought that no one my age shared the same kind of passion I did for rail history and preservation. All I heard was "doom-and-gloom" from those a bit older who waxed-poetic about steam in regular operation, how I would never know what it was like, and hence, I couldn't be part of their "club." When I came to OC, that all changed; I was surrounded by people my own age, who had the same or similar experiences as I had. I and a number of others 20, 30 and 40-somethings found out that we weren't alone --- over the course of the next two years, I made friendships that will last a lifetime, met some of my heros (and realized that even though the got in TRAINS, they could were only human), and learned more about steam than I had in the previous 28 years of my life until then (I'm officialy 30 now --- can't be trusted!!!). Why? Becuase the people running the program at the time took an almost classroom approach, and treated us like students --- we weren't treated like "railfans"; we were treated like new railroad employees, there to learn a trade, and do it. We learned that steam is a powerful force, not to be taken lightly: we were taught the differences between lifting and non-lifting injectors; we wen't through a CSX/ NS-style brakeman class. In short --- we got to experience life as it was and is on the railroad --- will all the good and bad; long hours away from family, but yet working towards common goals with like-minded individuals -- the ability to be killed if you weren't careful, all of it. To say that the fact I haven't been able to get down to OC/ and or see some of my friends who have since left there has been painful, is well, and understatement. 5.) Reality though is also a factor --- I'm now of the age where I'm raising children, working 40-60 weeks, (which often include weekends) and the pay is well, um --- some of you out there work in museums, right? Were lucky to be able to mow the lawn let alone go volunteer somewhere. Yes, there are fewer places to go --- but priorities are also a big part of it too. The fact I'm writing this on a half hour lunch break and not at night should say something. Enough for now --- hit my head falling of the soapbox.TJG |
|
| Author: | smokebox [ Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The future of steam |
The day is rapidly changing from "I ran steam" to "Dad ran steam and I was able to go for a ride". I'm from the "dad took me to see the AFT" crowd.I understand what the impact of the steam locomotive has had on the history of the USA. I volunteer to help that "impact" continue for futuure generations.To think there's hundereds of fans out there who don't know what a GS4 looks like in a park....Smokebox |
|
| Author: | p51 [ Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Memories of steam are fading... |
smokebox wrote: The day is rapidly changing from "I ran steam" to "Dad ran steam and I was able to go for a ride". I'm from the "dad took me to see the AFT" crowd. Me too! I'm 35, and find it funny how much has changed since I was a kid. People look at me here like I met Jesus Christ or something when I tell them about riding behind N&W 1218 under steam. It's amazing how it all changes so fast. I remember restoration projects that steamed up for a while and are now back to being rusty scrap again...mxdata wrote: Its not just that the memories are fading. In several of the enthusiast groups where I am a member, virtually everyone coming to the meetings is my age or older (50s+). You seldom see anybody younger than 40 presenting a lecture or program either. And in some of these groups (particularly NRHS chapters) there is very little effort to promote the group or their events to the public. When you mention this to the officers, they don't seem to view it as a matter for concern. It's not just within RR circles, trust me. I'm seriously into WW2 US vehicles, and all of us who own them are worried that once the WW2 vets are all gone, nobody will give a darn about their hardware anymore. I'm convinced that once they're gone, the museums will have less attendance. But yes, I feel that once the last people who remember steam are gone, so will a lot of interest in it. Keep in mind, the most rabid public interest in steam was the fan trips right after it quit running in the 1960s!
|
|
| Page 1 of 3 | All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ] |
| Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|