In Pennsylvania in the 1970s. Are they really going to install a Belpaire firebox on it?http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?february04/02-10-04/CP972atGlenokaPA1974Corel.jpg

There are, I believe, three of this class of 4-6-0 left in existance. I'd hate to see Strasburg, or any other operation, change her into something she ain't. Keeping her faithful to the CPR design seems to be a better exercise in historic preservation. I know- she belongs to Strasburg and they can do with her as they wish. I sincerely hope not.

When I was there a few weeks ago the firebox section was missing, rest of boiler on the chassis. I believe the eventual goal is to put a PRR style firebox on it.JKB

Richard,There are at least 6 D-10's, locations are:Kingston, ONOttawa, ONTottenville, ONMontreal, PQJim Thorpe, PAStrasburg, PARob

I stand corrected, but I will still state my wish that she not be butchered into something that wasn't.

You can also ad 894 in Kitchener, Ont. and 999 at St. Constant. (or what Rob has listed as Montreal) St. Constant (ExporailCanadian Railway Museum) also has a D4 #492, which is similar, and #453 is in Rome NY.

If they simply reboilered her, with a brand-new welded boiler that was 100% 21st-century, but matched the exterior contours of the original, would it be butchering? Would that engine be "more authentic" or "less authentic" than a 972 that has an otherwise CP boiler with a Belpaire firebox fitted?To put it another way: is the appearance more important than the actual material in determining what is "authentic"? If so, what is authentic?It strikes me that if you want to preserve the experience of living steam, then its best to be upfront about admitting that you are consuming the engine. Every service day makes the locomotive less what it was in common carrier service, whether its appearance changes much or not. And there is nothing wrong with that--the locomotive is having a continuing history in tourist service. Tourist engines preserve the experience of steam but they are not themselves preserved; instead, they are working artifacts subject to repair, change, and modification to better meet their continuing service needs.

999 Delson, PQ1098 Jim Thorpe, PA1095 Kingston, ON894 Kitchener, ON926 Ottawa, ON972 Strasburg, PA1057 Tottenham, ON

Erik,I agree with what you are saying, but as a CP fan, I find the installation of a Belpaire firebox to be an egregious outrage. I know that it is their engine, and they have the right to do with it as they see fit right down to scrapping it out for parts. Perhaps Kelly Anderson or Linn Modeinger will enlighten us as to why this decision was made. I can understand the attraction of a Belpaire firebox since Strasburg connected to the PRR which put a Belpaire firebox on just about everything. But as I type this, I am looking at the John Craft photo of #89 in its CN livery. I long for a similar CP photo session for #972. If a Belpaire firebox is installed, it can never happen. Strasburg has been equally sensitive in the restoration of ex-N&W #475. It can be easily modified back to its N&W appearance. I only wish they would restore #972 to something much closer to its CPR appearance.

I guess I am just amazed to see terms like "outrage" and "butcher" applied to work of the SRR shops. I can see "in their shoes I would not have made this decision." [For the record--in their shoes I probably would not have made this decision myself]. I could see "I am disappointed." But "outrage"? "Butcher?" Fourty-five years of excellence in steam operations apparantly weigh very little against altering the silhouette of a CP boiler. I respectfully suggest that when we start showing more respect to iron than to people who have devoted their lives to maintaining steam as a living technology, something is out of whack in our sense of what's important.

Not offensive at all, Erik, but the fact is that Canadian steam has it's own very beautiful design and engineering. Now I am a rock solid Pennsy fan, and nothing will take that away, but I am also very much appreciative of Canadian designs. Their locomotives are every bit as beautiful as any other. To me, it destroys the historical appearence of a beautiful little loco, built for branchline service in a cold climate. Strasburg does everything nicely, which is what cuts so deeply to a person like myself.

Erik,I have the utmost respect for what the folks at Strasburg have accomplished. I first rode the "Road to Paradise" in the summer of 1963. I got on on a child's fare at that time. Now I'm almost eligible for a senior citizen rate. I have ridden the railroad many times in the intervening years, most recently in December, 2003. Every visit there has been a pleasure.I admit that I have a very strong affinity for CPR steam. Maybe my language as a CPR fan was a little strong, and I may use my moderator's access to edit it. But to keep it civil, my point is this. Strasburg has never so heavily modified the appearance of any of its locomotives. I dare say that the Reading fans on this forum would be equally as upset if they rebuilt the Reading Camelback with a cab in the rear. To me the installation of a Belpaire firebox on #972 is almost as radical.If I have offended either Kelly or Linn, I would like to publicly apologize. I would be personally honored to meet both of them. But IMHO this planned restoration is a significant departure from their recent and much appreciated policy of restoring much of their equipment to honor the heritage of the railroads from which they came. #972 is the only CPR steamer that I will ever realistically be able to ride behind on a same day trip from my home in Maryland. I love what they have done with #89, and with #7312. I just hope I can one day ride behind #972 looking similar to what she did in her CPR days. I take the approach that steam locomotives should be restored and maintained as closely as reasonably possible to the condition that they were in when running for their original owners. I am a historical "purist" who also likes to see these machines as well as historic aircraft and ships operate in their respective environment as much as possible. I understand that they are not the machines they were in revenue service 50 years ago, but as an amateur historian, I want them demonstrated to the 99% of the public who does not share our passion for history as accurately as possible.

This has all the earmarks of an April Fool prank to me.

It is a somewhat hypothetical, in that SRR is not doing any real work on 972 at this point, but no, it's not April Fool's, Linn has seriously considering rebuilding the engine with a Belpaire someday.

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