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| 4501 Question https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18892 |
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| Author: | Alan S. Levy [ Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 4501 Question |
I was watching a video of the Southern Steam Program. It is hard to tell by watching on a screen, does anyone have any know how fast the Southern ran the 4501?Thanks! |
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| Author: | Josh Wallis [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4501 Question |
I think I may have the same video you do, and I was wondering the same thing. Some of the pacing shots were amazing, and could not believe they were running it that fast for so long without something going seriously wrong. I have heard some of Bill Purdie's stories about what they went through to keep 722, 630 and 4501 running when they really were not suited for the mainline. I would guess, however, 4501's top speed was around 50. |
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| Author: | Alan S. Levy [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4501 Question |
Well, using the old formula about a mile per hour for each inch of driver diameter..... She has 63 inch drivers. Now that "rule of thumb" formula changed with better counter balancing, higher tech metals and other advances. I think by the time 4501 was built that formula was out the window. If not, then I was thinking 60 mph was probably about right. However, I have been curious for hard information. |
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| Author: | Txhighballer [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4501 Question |
There have been stories of 4501 running at 60,but I can't confirm this as I only heard what I have been told....... |
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| Author: | johnacraft [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4501 Question |
In various SR timetables, you can find speed restrictions for 4501 of 55, 50, and 45mph. But those were put on it in the mid-70s or later.I can recall riding some trips in the 77-78 time frame that were certainly doing 50-55mph.It wouldn't surprise me to find out that it was running at track speed (or better) in the first 10 years of the program, as long as Mr. Purdie thought the running gear was up to it. And track speed for passenger trains on the Washington-New Orleans line was 79mph, so a 60-65mph top speed might have been reached in some spots.JAC |
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| Author: | Robert Yuill [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4501 Question |
After the 611 derailment in the swamp, steam was limited to 40 mph. Proir to the frame traming and wheel work done in the early 1980's, 35 mph was about it, due to bearings running hot. 60 mph prior to 1983 ? would be impractical.Robert uill |
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| Author: | Dave Stephenson [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4501 Question |
And here I sit with at least 90 minutes of on-train tape (pretty good quality too) commemorating 4501 forgetting her age, original purpose (freight) and making considerable time with about 12 cars northbound from Culpeper to Manassas in 1975. Can't be sure of the speed, but it was at least 45 mph and maybe 50 down some of the sags on Southern's main line in this stretch. She really kicked up her heels and showed those slicked-up FP7's and E's how things were done in the old days!! Back then, I wanted to make an LP (remember those things?) of this run, but estimated costs were prohibative for a younger guy with two kids and one job, and besides, I was advised everyone had a record of 4501 anyway. At least the tapes survived the years and have been converted to CD's at this point. Maybe someday....... |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4501 Question |
Quote: After the 611 derailment in the swamp, steam was limited to 40 mph. Proir to the frame traming and wheel work done in the early 1980's, 35 mph was about it, due to bearings running hot. 60 mph prior to 1983 ? would be impractical. Robert is correct about the post-Great Dismal Swamp speed limit; I have a bunch of post-derailment NS employee timetables which all say simply "Top speed of all steam locomotives on NS is 40 mph."What kept 611's speed in check was not hot bearings (although they could have been a pain), but 611's high center of gravity relative to curves that were no longer superelevated accordingly. Diesels allowed N&W and other railroads to reduce what had been a notable degree of superelevation of the outer rails of curves. 611's "official" speed limitations when released for service in 1982 were "track speed on tangents; 10 mph below posted speed restrictions on curves". This made for some rather docile running in the West Virginia hills, but I've seen/heard of 611 breaking 60 on the former Nickel Plate flatlands. The critical factor at this point is the posted track speed limit. 611 was, outside of some Crescent-route lines, rarely run on track approved for 79-mph passenger speeds; if 611 had ever been allowed on, say, the Northeast Corridor or the Empire State Corridor, we could have seen how fast she could REALLY run.
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| Author: | jasonsobczynski [ Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4501 Question |
And I quote directly from William J. Purdie,"The J is the only locomotive I ever actually got up to over 100 mph". He also stated to me at one point that he had 750 up to 87mph for several miles(during the period where his son would fire for him on occassion), as was observed by Graham Claytor from his seat aboard whatever bus. car he used back then. |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4501 Question |
Quote: And I quote directly from William J. Purdie,"The J is the only locomotive I ever actually got up to over 100 mph". Ah, but did he say he did it post-July, 1982 (the inaugural runs of 611 post-restoration)? He could have done it between 1950 and 1959, you know......
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| Author: | jasonsobczynski [ Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4501 Question |
Very true....put he did state the year and it was 80 something after restoration. Intersting point though, I never heard him tell any stories about what he did during the tail end of the era. |
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