The title was a tactic to get people to read this. SORRY.

>Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 06:30:24 -0000
>
>I think this is a great post. I have had similar experiences at
>other museums/tourist railroads. Just remember, if it sets us off,
>imagine what it would do to somebody who doesn't really care the
>least about trains, and are just stopping by to try to learn
>something new!
>
>May I suggest you post your experience to the railroad preservation
>news interchange (open posting board) at rypn.org I frequent this
>board, and I think it is helpful for us who are involved in
>preservation to remember that people skills are just as important as
>preservation skills.
>
>
I had been up in northern Wisconsin camping and went to see what kind of railroad happenings were going on in Spooner. I was surprised and delighted to see 2 C&NW F-units in the process of being restored. When I went into the WGN depot I spoke with a very nice lady about train schedules and what not. I then asked her about the F units and told her how I had ridden in one from West Chicago into CPT (Chicago Passenger Terminal)behind C&NW 1385. A guy walked in and proceeded to give me cocky answers to all my questions regarding whether or not it ran, paint scheme, and when it will run. He replied NO it'll be in the GN colors like the rest of the railroad and yeah it runs right now we had it out yesterday for a test run. Maybe he was jealous that I got a cab ride on the main line or he thought I was just some punk kid. Anyway, that is not the way to treat people (anybody)especially in this day and age with the hard times upon all museums. What if I was just some tourist. I replied by saying "hey as long as it's running'". Which is what I believe. It's better than it being scrapped. I must say probably the only time I will ever ride the WGN (Wisconsin Great Northern)again though is only behind SOO LINE 2719. I was up there last year with my girlfriend and we rode the train. It was very nice but that guy this year just really burned me. I had one more problem in Spooner: the guys at the CNW depot museum. I walked in there last year and didn't know anything. I walked in and my eyes started to wander (it really looked interesting). I was about three feet in the door and one of the guys said HEY if you're going to' keep looking' you'll have to pay. I was stunned. I asked him about the train rides and that seemed to set him off. He said that's not related to this, they are two separate museums but not in a nice manner. If you're going to preserve things like this you need to have some people skills. I just wonder what happens when the average tourist does the same thing I did. These places could lose lots of precious "DOLLARS" and then we would not have these places to go and see our little bits of history that we all love.

Sincerely,
>>Christopher G. Pitzen
>>

I originally posted the above part to the CNW Yahoo group on Saturday July 7, 2001. I have only received one message so far since then. It sort of surprises me. I would think that people would be a little bit more concerned about what goes on at these places. These message boards should not just be about references for modeling because what if all your references were SCRAPPED one day. All you would have is photos not the real thing and nowadays it's becoming pretty scarce to find the people that actually worked in, on, and around these places, things, etc. I hope that this will be another wake up call to EVERY enthusiast out there (modeler, museum, date nail collector, any rail person anywhere.) What I mean by "another" is that I know that this has been noticed before by other people. I think we need to (as general rail enthusiasts) focus on lots of things but this could be a major one. I am one of the young guys that you guys need desperately. I'm only in my twenties and grew up in a railroad family. It is in my blood and I just hope that these things will be around for my grandchildren. I would love to do my part as long as I'm treated equally. Sorry if this upsets anybody but something needed to be said. It may have just been a bad day for those guys but I've always been told to try and leave that behind and focus on the job at hand. SAFETY FIRST!!!!!

Sincerely,
Christopher G. Pitzen

PS Sorry it was so long.

ablemanscurve@hotmail.com

Chris:

Before posting emotional reactions please take some time to reflect and consider how they are likely to be recieved by others.

I am sure you were offended by some shortsighted, pompous, arrogant self important egomaniacs at the places to which you refer and I am sorry they don't have the understanding and larger picture point of view to think through what they said to you either. Yes, we do need to encourage the younger generations to prevent our preservation efforts from dying by attrition within the next 30 years or so along with us old guys who did and are actively working on the artifacts (we can't quite consider them artifacts yet - some are younger than we are).

OTOH, it does sound like you had been treated pretty well by some others in the area previously, why not write off this bad experience to more education and let it go?

One of the costs which offsets the benefits of predominantly volunteer staffed operations is the ego / emotional motivation of the people involved. This can have its effects on communication and attitude but if it weren't for volunteers, think how little we would have saved and operating today. Some "professional" operations are staffed by people only interested in paychecks and not holding any personal passion for the work - they can be even worse.

Take it with a grain of salt and go back to where you were better welcomed and support those entities. Don't visit places where you are not welcomed. They will disappear sooner or later.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

Chris, I'd like to mirror What Dave Lathrop said. Take it with a grain of salt, meaning don't let it get to you. Sometimes a person will come off being completely rude to a visitor. This has happened to me several times visiting various railroad museums. People are just people. No-one can know what has recently happened to that one individual who was rude, but I try to let things like this go. And then I usually go too... down the road to some other local railroad museum.

Brian Hebert


Conway Scenic Railroad
btamper@hotmail.com

I try not to interfere except when absolutely necessary, but this was really tacky. I don't think resorting to such tactics is necessary or appropriate on this forum.

I'm not pulling this thread only because I want people to know I won't condone this in the future.

Railway Preservation News
hkading@rypn.org

> I try not to interfere except when
> absolutely necessary, but this was really
> tacky. I don't think resorting to such
> tactics is necessary or appropriate on this
> forum.

> I'm not pulling this thread only because I
> want people to know I won't condone this in
> the future.

In response to a couple of e-mails I got on this thread, let me make it clear that I only take umbrage with the false subject line, "UNDISCOVERED LOCOMOTIVE," not with the true subject, which is a legitimate topic. And, I have had similar experineces.


Railway Preservation News
hkading@rypn.org

Actually, one would know it is a bogus title as soon as it is read. An UNDISCOVERED locomotive would not be known, and thus could not be the subject of a post!
------------------------------------------------
I am a volunteer with a steam excursion operation. I also don't approve of such treatment of potential patrons. However, when I've been out on a trip with a bunch of excursions, I tend to get very tired of explaining over and over again that no, it's not a diesel in disguise, yes we ran it here, and no the whistle isn't what makes it go. I tend to become somewhat short with people at times, regretting it while I am in the very act of being short with them. I then remove myself from the public as soon as I am able so I don't cause too many ill feelings. If you look at those people in this light, perhaps you can forgive these people and return to the smae places again. I'd say if it happened again, send a letter to the organization and alert them to what kind of treatment the public is receiving. mark D.

mnmach@lakes.com

I just sold some parts to the WGNRR for their F units (their loco bells used to be mine!) and all I can say is that the person I dealt with was very curteous in our communications. The only problem was on my end with a misplaced UPS package that took too long to deliver.

Hey if you catch me at the wrong time, like after I broke an expensive tool or after I lost an important part, I would probably be grouchy and snotty as well. But it goes away once my temper cools off.

Tod Engine Foundation

rickrailrd@aol.com

> In response to a couple of e-mails I got on
> this thread, let me make it clear that I
> only take umbrage with the false subject
> line, "UNDISCOVERED LOCOMOTIVE,"
> not with the true subject, which is a
> legitimate topic. And, I have had similar
> experiences.

I'm sorry I did that but I thought that it was an important subject for Railway Preservation. I knew that if I put a normal title in then only a small audience would have taken the time to read it. I apologized in the first line and I apologize again.


ablemanscurve@hotmail.com

> Actually, one would know it is a bogus title
> as soon as it is read. An UNDISCOVERED
> locomotive would not be known, and thus
> could not be the subject of a post!
>
> ------------------------------------------------
> I am a volunteer with a steam excursion
> operation. I also don't approve of such
> treatment of potential patrons. However,
> when I've been out on a trip with a bunch of
> excursions, I tend to get very tired of
> explaining over and over again that no, it's
> not a diesel in disguise, yes we ran it
> here, and no the whistle isn't what makes it
> go. I tend to become somewhat short with
> people at times, regretting it while I am in
> the very act of being short with them. I
> then remove myself from the public as soon
> as I am able so I don't cause too many ill
> feelings. If you look at those people in
> this light, perhaps you can forgive these
> people and return to the same places again.
> I'd say if it happened again, send a letter
> to the organization and alert them to what
> kind of treatment the public is receiving.
> mark D.

I understand the sometimes silly questions that you get. I also applaud you for getting yourself out of the situation when your having a rough day. When I was young I was around a steam program in the 80's and early 90's. I was there when people came up and asked those questions. Of course they weren't directed towards me but I knew the answers because I have a great father that taught me many things. I know that most people only remember the best things that happen and not the worst. I have to apologize again though because I think I was a little bit harsh on these organizations. I don't know if I said this already but the first time I rode the WGN IT WAS FUN. The people were very nice. Also, I was not giving emotional reactions but merely stating facts that I've noticed happening more and more lately. It really bothers me that there are so many great museums, engines, and other rail-oriented places that could be so much greater if the organization focused on their goals rather than each members dreams. Though dreams are great motivation.

ablemanscurve@hotmail.com