I found a bit of a poser yesterday in Glasgow Missouri. Last year I had seen a riveted cylindrical object protruding from the river. I was back in Glasgow yesterday Nov. 12th. Since the river is at present very low, I thought I might be able to spot my mystery cylinder. Low and behold it was attached to a locomotive type boiler conisstent in size with a small steam locomotive. It was a single rivet lap seam boiler with a round top firebox about the same width as the boiler (i. e. it does not taper in as though it went between the frames.) I went back up today and wlaked down to take a better look at it in stronger daylight, and to get more pictures. (I'll post some as soon as I can get them developed. I'd guess it won't be before Wednesday, but I'll try to get some up here this week.) A rough description of what I saw follows:The boiler is approximately one third burried in silt, lying on the engineers side, buried more towards the front than the back. Under normal river conditions it is mostly to completely submerged, but at present it is hight and dry. There are two boiler courses in front of the firebox, with the front course much the longer of the two. The total length of existing boiler is about fifteen feet or so, but the smokebox is clearly missing, since the boiler shell ends just past the front tube sheet. The boiler diameter is about five feet, more or less. There is no frame to be seen, or anything other than the boiler. It is a straight top, cylindrical, single rivet lap seam boiler. The steam dome is quite tall, protruding perhaps three or four feet above the top line of the boiler. It is cylindrical, flat topped, and perhaps two and a half feet in diameter. The tubes are no more than two inches in diameter, and all of them that I saw are the same diameter, so I presume this was a saturated steamer. The firebox was open on the bottom, with no remnants of either a grate or an ash pan. The number of stay bolts, though they were quite worn and not at all obvious until you went down to the boiler, seemed consistent with locomotive practice, with staybolts in something like a 2 or 3 inch grid pattern. (They were pretty frequent, particularly for something with a single rivet lap seam, but if the boiler pressure was fairly low, maybe that's all that was needed. My 1930 locomotive cyclpedia indeed describes such seams.) The firedoor hole was roughly lozenge shaped. There was the remnant of what I presume to be the throttle gland on the backhead, as well as something on top of the dome. The only thing that struck me as particularly odd was a piece of C shaped channel steel attached to the side of the firebox exterior. This was sloped slightly so that it was not precisely parallel to the bottom of the firebox. It was about even with the bottom of the boiler.Other physical evidence neraby:There were fragments of at least one, and possibly as many as three other boilers nearby somewhat higher up. (One of them contained a tube sheet with rather larger diameter flues. But unless this beast had three sheets, it was off a different boiler. Additionaly it had a large ovoid opening that seemed inconsistent with a dry pipe, so I'd guess this one might have been off a stationary boiler with a return flue. A Scotch boiler or something like it?)Up on the street paralleleing the river there had clearly been a rail line down the middle of the street. This is off the old C&A line from Chicago to Kansas City. There are still rails burried in the street a little further North from the spot the boiler lies, and there is live rail to a grain elevator south of it, so presumably the line ran down the street.My few conclusions so far:The boiler seems to me to have been a locomotive boiler. I can't see what else it would have been at the size, shape, and style that it was. Seems inconsistent with the river boat and stationary boilers I've seen. (Too squat for the first, too long for the second.) Additionaly, the proximity to a ralk line is suggestive. On the other hand the scarcity of hardware, and the complete absence of anything beyonf the boiler itself suggests to me that this was most probably not a wreck, but rather a locomotive boiler that had been removed from the frames and placed in stationary service, and perhaps dumped in the river carelessly when whatever business had used it no longer needed it. (The proximity of the other apparently unrelated boiler fragments would bear this out. Further there is other industrial debris in the river, including a fairly large cog.) Does anyonw know of anything that might match this description? A quick scan od this database revealed no reference to Glasgow. I'll post photographs as soon as possible. If you're in the area, Glasgow is Northwest of Columbia about an hour or so, and the river is likely to remain down at least until the spring I should think, so further observation will be possible. There is a passable trail down to the riverbed and the locomotive just South of the shelter and viewpoint in downtown Glasgow, and the boiler is clearly visible from the end of the viewpoint (essentlally a pier extending out into the river, save for times of low water as at present) for those less able or inclied to hike down a steep riverbank.) Any information you can provide would be accepted kindly.Sincerely,David Ackermandavid_ackerman@yahoo.com

Hi David;What a neat find!Until I see the pictures, I am not sure either. I have no steam engine listed in Glasgow, MO.One other possibility is that it is the boiler from a traction or portable steam engine. The lack of other hardware, and the angle iron on the side of the firebox might be consistant with a portable steam engine or portable steam boiler. The angle iron would have been where the rear wheels were bolted on.I think the way you will be able to tell is if you can look inside or underneath the smokebox. A steam locomotive would have the drypipe coming out of the front tube sheet, and branching to each side of the cylinder saddle. A portable steam engine would not have a drypipe hole in the front tube sheet, the steam engine was bolted on top. There would be a center post under the smokebox where the front wheels were hinged. A stationary boiler would have neither.If the smokebox door is still in place, then writing or a number plate may help identify it. I guess any builder's plates are long gone.If the other three boilers appear to be next to each other in a line; they might also be the remains of steamboat.I hope this helps; I am looking forward to seeing your pictures.-James Hefner Hebrews 10:20a Surviving World Steam Project

Unfortunately, if I recall correctly the top of the front tube sheet is buried, so I can't speak to the location of the drypipe if there was one. I'd be forced to assume that there is a drypipe, since there is what I'm pretty sure is the remains of the throttle gland on the backhead for a dome throttle. Can't imagine why you'd have a dome if you didn't have a drypipe, and there wasn't a drypipe in evidence coming out the front of the dome, so it would almost have to be inside the boiler shell. A traction engine is an idea that occured to me, but this seemed a bit to big. Certainly larger than the traction engines I've seen. As to number plates, not only is the smokebox door gone, but so is the smokebox, assuming that there was one. The surviving boiler shell ends a few inches in front of the front tube sheet. The C-channels on the firebox didn't show any attachment points, so I had guessed that they might have been bolted on after retirement to mount the boiler on blocks, and thus use it as a stationary boiler. It's still possible that it was built as one, but the stationary boilers I've seen have all looked pretty un-locomotive like, so I figure this one started life with wheels of some kind and then was later divorced from said to end life supplying house steam to something.As to the boiler remnants on the bank, those were higher up and in the weeds. To be from a steam boat they would have to have been tossed up from the river, which seems unlikely. The fragments are lying in very much the way you might expect trash tossed in the river that never quite made it all the way down to lie. I should hopefully have the pictures up here ere the week is out, so you can see better what I’m trying to describe then. Ideally I’d also like to get back up to the site and get some solid measurements. Would either a stationary or a traction boiler have had a smokebox as I understand it? How would the dome have been configured? The firebox? (This one is a typical locomotive type staybolted firebox. The rear left corner of the backhead has rusted through, so you can see in and identify the forest of staybolts, even if the heads weren’t visible on the outside and indeed inside of the firebox (which though worn, they certainly are.) Nothing odd like a Jacob’s-Schupert or watertube firebox. I’ll try and take a closer look at the crown sheet next time I’m up there. I don’t recall if any of my pictures would show it, but there’s no reason I shouldn’t be able to get one. I appreciate the suggestions on what to look for. Any additional recommendations will be gladly accepted, and I’d be happy to provide any additional clarifications that might be desired. I find this quite exciting, to say the least, though I suppose it’s not that uncommon. I'll keep you posted.Sincerely,David Ackerman

The tall steam dome suggests tank engine ancestry.

I am almost certain a traction engine would have a drypipe. However, the steam engine is mounted on top of the boiler; the drypipe may be on the outside (which is probably what you are thinking, and correct), or inside the boiler, then up to the steam engine. I just don't know enough about traction engines to speak intelligently about them; I know Kelly Anderson or Revrend JJ do.Some traction engines got to be pretty big; up in the 110HP range. Standing next to them; a person would be barely taller than the belly of the boiler.Yes, since stationary boilers didn't start and stop moving, or go up and down hills; I don't think they were built with a steam dome. A throttle would be nothing more than a stop valve on the main steam line; I believe. I have a catalog on stationary boilers; and that is what it depicts. I am looking forward to seeing them.Once again; others are better qualified to speak on this; but I think traction engine and locomotive boilers were pretty similiar in design. The main variation I can think of is that some traction engines were built with a wet bottom firebox; but most have smaller versions of the firebox and smokebox you would find on a steam locomotive.The biggest difference is the fact that steam locomotives had a saddle under the smokebox with the drypipe branching down to each cylinder and the blast pipe at the bottom of the smokebox. A traction engine had it's engine mounted on top; I think the exhaust pipe went into the stack rather than the smokebox; with the support post for the front wheels under the smokebox.Something I just thought of: Most traction engines had a screw across the front of the firebox. This had a chain wrapped around it; the ends of which were connected to each side of the front axle. The screw was turned by a shaft and bevel gears; this was used to steer it.You might check and see if you can see mounting studs for the screw; as well as the engine on top of the boiler. Unless it was an undermount (like an Avery); they might be still visible; otherwise; you might see mounting studs for some other bits. (Unless it is a tank engine; what might you see then on the boiler shell?)Stationary boilers I have seen have a really short smokebox. The exhaust opening on top is actually rectangular, with a transistion piece to a round smokestack.I hope I am not steering you wrong; best of luck in your quest.-James Hefner Hebrews 10:20a Surviving World Steam Project

Here are a few photographs of the boiler and other artifacts neraby:http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/bc/17885718/bc/Photographs/Rail+Photos/Missouri/Archaeology/01+Overview+of+the+Site.jpg?bf19gfDBDCnEsd5xThis is the general site. It's on the North side of the riverbeard at Glasgow Missourihttp://us.f1.yahoofs.com/bc/17885718/bc/Photographs/Rail+Photos/Missouri/Archaeology/02+Boiler+from+the+Front.jpg?bf19gfDBxaDYdk37This is a view from the front of the boiler. If you look closely you can make out the tubes. The front tube sheet appears to be missing, and since the tubes terminate very close to the front of the surviving boiler, I assume it was longer at one time. (Thus my curriosity about whether traction engines would have a smokebox. I thing they generally do, but perhaps I'm mistaken.)http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/bc/17885718/bc/Photographs/Rail+Photos/Missouri/Archaeology/09+Boiler+Sect+w+Tube+Sheet.jpg?bf19gfDBjGA4lPGAhttp://us.f1.yahoofs.com/bc/17885718/bc/Photographs/Rail+Photos/Missouri/Archaeology/03+Backhead+and+Dome.jpg?bf19gfDBNLpvw4TSYou can see the backhead and what I suspect is the throttle gland in this shot. You can also see that either the bottom of the firebox has rusted out completely, if there ever was a watter bottom to it, or it is open on the bottom. (I think it's the latter, but don't quote me on that. I had remebered the dome being on the first boiler course, which it isn't. It's over the firebox. I might have to get back and take some more pictures.)http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/bc/17885718/bc/Photographs/Rail+Photos/Missouri/Archaeology/04+Dome.jpg?bf19gfDBy6Pp1LTbThis gives a bit of a view of the top of the dome.http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/bc/17885718/bc/Photographs/Rail+Photos/Missouri/Archaeology/05+Firebox+and+Under+Boiler.jpg?bf19gfDBmycYa4WYYou can see into the firebox a bit here. There's a good view of one of the tubes, which has come loose from the sheet. You can also see the I-beam quite well.http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/bc/17885718/bc/Photographs/Rail+Photos/Missouri/Archaeology/06+I-Beam+on+Firebox.jpg?bf19gfDBh9sGJdkTThis gives you a view of the I-beam and the side of the firebox. the staybolt heards are pretty clear, as is the rivet seam on the steam dome.http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/bc/17885718/bc/Photographs/Rail+Photos/Missouri/Archaeology/07+Boiler+Front+Showing+Tubes.jpg?bf19gfDBNF9tB_yzI've lightened this one up considerably, so as to make the tubes as clear as possible. (It didn't scan well. I may try a rescand latter.) The tubes aren't easy to see, but you can make them out.http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/bc/17885718/bc/Photographs/Rail+Photos/Missouri/Archaeology/08+Unidentified+Debris.jpg?bf19gfDBnSvGH8NSThis is a piece of scrap metal that looked to be similarly worn and aged. Wondered if it might be related. (There's a lot of debris nearby, most of which is much newer, and some of which is clearly identifiable, auto wheels and such. I've also got pictures of a large cog wheel and a flange that might be about the right vintage. Both are heavily rusted and encrusted with mud and the like, but I've no way of knowing if they are related. I did not scan them, but can if you wish it.)http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/bc/17885718/bc/Photographs/Rail+Photos/Missouri/Archaeology/09+Boiler+Sect+w+Tube+Sheet.jpg?bf19gfDBjGA4lPGAThis is one of the three boiler fragments I found nearby. They all appear much newer. It's hard to sse it through the weeds in the photograph, but you can make out the tube sheet, which as I recall, has rather larger tubes. I can't seem to get the other two boiler fragment photographs to lead, so I'll stop here for now.Sincerely,David Ackerman

Hi David;Try as I may; I could not get to your photographs. What part of Yahoo (or Yahoo Group) did you post your photographs to?-James Hefner Hebrews 10:20a Surviving World Steam Project

They are posted in a briefcase. It's a public briefcase, and it should be browsable by anyone. I was able to get in when not logged in to yahoo at all. Have you a suggestion for an alternate location to post them? Sincerely,David

.

The links are dead for me too.

I have found the best place for sharing photographs is webshots.com. It is free, easy to use; and if you make your folder public; it is usually easy to share.-James

I put them on webshots, so you're welcome to search for them there, but I was unable to link to them in webshots. (All the links just redirected to the webshots front page.) I couldn't seem to post the lins as images either, so as a last attempt, I've put them in yahoo photos, which has worked for me in the past. It limits the resolution you'll be able to view them at, but if you want larger versions, send me an e-mail at david_ackermans@yahoo.com and I'll mail you whatever pictures you are interested in. Here is the link to the photo album, and below is a description of what I make of the pictures.http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/david_ackerman/detail?.dir=/7ed3&.dnm=102bre2.jpg&.src=ph1. An overview of the site2. The boiler from the front3. Backhead and view throufg firebox door. (Note that wither there is no water bottom, or it has rusted through. I need to double check this. I believe the firebox was simply open on the bottom, but I''ve been wrong before.)4. The top of the dome, and a decent view of what I believe was the throttle gland on the backhead.5. A view of the backhead and boiler showing a flue through a rusted corner[/img] of the firebox, and the I-beam on the side fo the firebox.6. The I-beam, firebox side, and dome, showing the seam on the dome fairly clearly.7. The front of the boiler. I don't know how clear this will be on your monitor, (I've tried to lighten it up so that you can see inside the boiler) but in the original photgraph it is apparent that the flues terminate just inside the surviving boiler barrel, so what's there doesn't include the smokebox, if there ever was one. The front tube sheet is either mostly or entirely missing. (You can see something that might be the edges of the front tube sheet, but I'd have a hard time saying for sure.) It seems likely to me that there was another boiler course at one time that would have contained a smokebox. Obviously, the dry pipe, if there is one there, is obscured. You might be able to tell with closer examination, but I didn't notice it, and you can't see it in the picture (even with the original in front of you.) The hole in the bottom of the boiler suggests to me that there might have been something attached there at one time, perhaps the pin suggested earlier for a front axle on a traction engine, but whatever was there is gone now.8. A piece of scrap showing a similar weathering and sediment pattern, possibly of similar age? Possibly related? (Not sure, but this one seems a more likely candidate than any of the other debris that I saw on the riverbed.)9-11. Unrelated boiler fragments found nearby, (the first with a tube sheet.)I hope that this works a bit better, as I'd really like to hear what everyone has to say. The shape of the firebox seems like it might be more sonsistent with a traction engine, and the I-beam is suggestive.Sincerely,David Ackerman

David,That boiler is a water bottom , I've never seen a steam dome that large on a traction engine so my guess is its a stationary boiler. I don't know enough about boats to comment on whether it could be from one.Thanks for sharing the pics.