Hello all;

A colleague was inquiring about the grate sizes on the Hever Valley Railroad locomotives; in specific, what was the break-even point where stokers had to be fitted? 50 sq. ft? Did it depend on what service the locomotives were subject to? Was there laws on this, or just general custom?

BTW; After spending a few days at the Heber Valley Railroad, I have more respect for the fitness level and endurance of coal firemen; almost all of my experience has been on oil fired locomotives. Boy, can those guys move, and boy, are they all in great shape! I cycle about 30 miles/day; trying to fire on the move outlined "gaping holes" in my exercise program. Changes are in place...


john.stewart@crc.ca

I'll throw in my meager bit of knowledge. There were (are) laws regarding when a stoker was (is)required, it depended on the weight on the drivers. One example, the PRR H-10 and G-5, almost identicle locomotives except wheel arrangement, a 2-8-0 and 4-6-0 respectively. Since the H-10 carried more percentage on its weight on the drivers it was required to have a stoker while the G-5 did not. I do not know where the cutoff was for the weight, but someone here can probably tell you.

This doesn't mean railroads didn't put stokers on locomotives that were under that wieght on the drivers but it was at their discretion.

Roger

> Hello all;

> A colleague was inquiring about the grate
> sizes on the Hever Valley Railroad
> locomotives; in specific, what was the
> break-even point where stokers had to be
> fitted? 50 sq. ft? Did it depend on what
> service the locomotives were subject to? Was
> there laws on this, or just general custom?

> BTW; After spending a few days at the Heber
> Valley Railroad, I have more respect for the
> fitness level and endurance of coal firemen;
> almost all of my experience has been on oil
> fired locomotives. Boy, can those guys move,
> and boy, are they all in great shape! I
> cycle about 30 miles/day; trying to fire on
> the move outlined "gaping holes"
> in my exercise program. Changes are in
> place...


Belpaire@aol.com

Another issue to consider is the age of the locomotives in question. Many articulated locomotives were built prior to the Stoker Law and were retrofitted in later years. Southern Railway's L and Ls class Mallets were all originally built as hand-fired locomotives and most were refitted with stokers in their later years.

envlink@voyageronline.net

> Hello all;

> A colleague was inquiring about the grate
> sizes on the Hever Valley Railroad
> locomotives; in specific, what was the
> break-even point where stokers had to be
> fitted? 50 sq. ft? Did it depend on what
> service the locomotives were subject to? Was
> there laws on this, or just general custom?

> BTW; After spending a few days at the Heber
> Valley Railroad, I have more respect for the
> fitness level and endurance of coal firemen;
> almost all of my experience has been on oil
> fired locomotives. Boy, can those guys move,
> and boy, are they all in great shape! I
> cycle about 30 miles/day; trying to fire on
> the move outlined "gaping holes"
> in my exercise program. Changes are in
> place...

I believe that 70 sq. feet was considered the maximum grate area that a human fireman could handle. I don't remember what publication I saw this in, possibly RME. FYI, Pennsy K-4s were 70 sq. feet.

> I believe that 70 sq. feet was considered
> the maximum grate area that a human fireman
> could handle. I don't remember what
> publication I saw this in, possibly RME.
> FYI, Pennsy K-4s were 70 sq. feet.

In 1937 the unions (BLF&E takes credit among others) got stokers required for engines above a certain weight on drivers (or was it tractive effort). Many camelbacks had grates 90 square feet and over, but no stoker because they burned the anthracite slowly. Further, big engines evolved before reliable stokers so some early Mallets were hand fired by default. I understand some jobs had two firemen or possibly a coal trimmer and a fireman.

The stoker law kind of backfired on the unions because the improved performance with stokers reduced doubleheading and cut extra engine calls.

Electric City Trolley Museum Associa

> I believe that 70 sq. feet was considered
> the maximum grate area that a human fireman
> could handle. I don't remember what
> publication I saw this in, possibly RME.
> FYI, Pennsy K-4s were 70 sq. feet.

In 1937 the unions (BLF&E takes credit among others) got stokers required for engines above a certain weight on drivers (or was it tractive effort). Many camelbacks had grates 90 square feet and over, but no stoker because they burned the anthracite slowly. Further, big engines evolved before reliable stokers so some early Mallets were hand fired by default. I understand some jobs had two firemen or possibly a coal trimmer and a fireman.

The stoker law kind of backfired on the unions because the improved performance with stokers reduced doubleheading and cut extra engine calls.

Electric City Trolley Museum Associa