Looks like San Diego is going to start a heritage tolley operation.http://www.heritagetrolley.org/planSanD ... 2.htmSloan

Seems odd that they wouldn't go after the San Diego PCC's at the Orange Empire Railway Museum or the ones in El Paso.

My guess is (without checking Frank Hick's wonderful on line roster of electric cars) that there are more ex-MUNI cars surviving than ex-San Diego cars. Given that these cars will experiece a fair bit of wear and may have to be modified with handicapped lifts (a'la the PCC's in Kenosha, WI) then perhaps they felt it would be better to modify cars that are comparatively less rare. It would be nice if they purchased the MUNI PCC that is at the Fox River Trolley musuem too. Tom Cornillie

As a matter of fact, a couple of the managers from SDT actually came out to Perris over a year ago to discuss the concept of leasing 508 or 528 with us. Both cars would need major restoration to be useable in a heritage trolley service. I think after talking both parties realized that what San Diego needed was some PCCs that could be modified "at will" to suit the service conditions of running an historic car in a modern rail transit environment. As part of the Museums' Permanent Collection, cars 508 and 528 are really not well suited to this role.From a curatorial standpoint, car 528, as rough as it is in spots, is probably one of the most complete prewar PCC cars surviving anywhere. It's all there, including the original air compressor. Never been restored, never been messed with (except for some funky exterior latex paint), completely intact to its late 1930s condition. Happily both cars will soon have an indoor home once the Carhouse Seven project is complete.http://www.oerm.org/

The MUNI PCC (#1030)at the Fox River Trolley Museum is in very rough condition at present.The car was sidelined several years ago (I'd put the number at at least 10-12) due to it's condition and rough handling characteristics on the museum's track. The car has sat, exposed, for all of the intervening time, and is a regular target for vandals as well as critters. The last time I was in the car was about 6 years ago, we removed the poles from the roof as the trolley boards had deteriorated and were causing damage to the roof itself as the tension from the pole springs continued to pull. Almost all of the windows, including the windshields, are broken, and the seats, and interior,particularly at the rear of the car have been home to various wildlife. The carbody itself is deteriorating much as one would expect when exposed to Midwestern weather extremes.Given the museum's efforts and the recent return of CA&E 316 to operational functionality after many years of half completed restoration and similar disrepair in ther carbarn, I'd be the last one to say never, but this car needs an awful large amount of work just to stabilize it, unfortunately there are many less-deserving, but much easier to recover cars out there, and I would guess this car is also either at the tail-end, or very close to it of equipment priorities for FRTM.

Do you think that this car will be salvaged and scrapped? I don't think that this would necessarily be a bad thing since there are so many other SF PCCs out there in better condition. It would also do much to improve the appearance of the Fox River Trolley Museum entrance area (where it presently sits). Moreover, if done using the practices of archaeological demolition - would yield quite a bit of info about PCC construction practices and quite a few parts to sell or trade -- maybe enough to bring one of the AEFR&C cars from the Trolleyville collection?Tom Cornillie

I can not speak for the Fox River Trolley Museum, having stepped away from the organization 5 years ago to pursue other endeavors.If you want my personal opinion, I've long wished that FRTM would have another option for storing both the MUNI PCC, as well as their two South Shore cars. For those that have not visited the museum, space is at a premium, and these three cars are parked immediately at the front of the museum property, it's impossible not to see them when visiting. Each of the three cars is in physically bad shape and it does create a bad initial visual. Again, I stress this placement is due to resource limitations, it's not that they don't care. When the new housing development was started just past the museum's campus, I was personally fearful that some type of demands would be put on the musuem to stabilize, or if need be, scrap, these "eyesores". Clearly the museum has been proactive in these issues and managed to continue ownership without interference (Again, this is an outsider's view, based on what can be seen, not internal information)I beleive the MUNI car is one of the last cars ordered by the MUNI at the time, so it has some tenable "historic" value over similar cars. One of the South Shore cars is #24, which is one of only two cars the South Shore ever painted in the "reverse" paint scheme, maroon body, orange accents.On the final note about returning an AE&FRE car from Trolleyville, this is the stuff that dreams are made of, again never say never, but don't hold your breath. I know that many discussions, both formal and informal, were had over the years to no avail. Once Trolleyville is newly established in their new home, under what would basically be new leadership, the situation might change. While the lightweight cars were long gone by the time diesel #5 came on the scene, it would be pretty impressive to see two former pieces of equipment returned to home rails.

Not that this should be any higher on the wish list, but there's also a San Diego/El Paso PCC at the Baltimore Streetcar Museum, former 503/1503, awaiting regauging and restoration as "Baltimore Transit 7503".

Sandy,That should be "7303"; the 7500 series was assigned to Brilliners, even though there was only one of those.Dave Crow

Just nitpicking here, but... aren't the South Shore cars at FRTM #7 and #14? I thought #24 was one of the "dining cars" at East Troy. That being said, I have absolutely no idea which South Shore cars were painted in that reverse paint scheme. And I agree with you completely about the slim chances of FRTM or anyone else getting an AE&FRE car from Trolleyville, barring a major change anyway.

Frank, You're right, it's 14 not 24, a slip of the fingers whilst typing.The South Shore was pretty unique in sticking with one standard paint scheme for so many years. When car 15 was rebuilt as the first modernized car (lengthened, air conditioned, etc) it had the reverse scheme applied. For many years, most people assumed it was the only car painted as such. I acquired a photo of car 14 some years ago showing the same reverse paint scheme. For some reason, not many people know there were two cars painted as such, and I've won more than a couple of bets having that photo to prove my point.The only other paint schemes worn by the cars during their long yearsof service were the special paint jobs applied during World War II. I don't have the reference materials here in front of me, but I seem to recall there were two different cars painted, one to encourage purchase of War Bonds, the other an enlistment call for the Navy ?? Not sure.

Another link on the S. Lake Tahoe/San Diego PCCs.
http://www.progressiverailroading.com/p ... sp?id=8022

Sloan