OK, I waas asked an interesting question I couldn't answer a few days ago and I hope the contributing geniuses to this board can find one.

DPM opined in TRAINS many years ago that the end of revenue steam regular freight service in the USA wouldn't be the last 4-8-4 on a mainline, but the final straw that breaks the back of the clanking, wheezing old switcher or 2-8-0 at a gravel pit or coal mine or shortline in some podunk that can't afford a diesel and can't make the expensive repair to get the old kettle running again due to very marginal revenue.

Discounting modern regenerations of steam freight such as Jack Anderson's of a couple years ago or the recent FW&W use of the 4=6=0 as a pusher, and photo freights on different lines, and movie / media work, where and when was the final steam revenue trip?

I also want to discount "emergency" short lived use of steam to cover a dieselized lines temporary breakdown after official retirement of steam, although it might be interesting to know about this as well.

I am thinking Graham County or Rockton and Rion - any other ideas?

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

I think Rockton and Rion, and Graham County are good guesses for a shortline operation, and there are arquably lots of "Last Steamers" that made it longer than they should have, and perhaps a fireless cooker at some plant wins in this regard.

However, I have always felt in my mind the last was the Rio Grande Narrow Gauge operation from Alamosa to Durango and Farmington, which last hauled freight in 1968, and continued to haul passengers on the Durango-Silverton Line under the name Rio Grande until sold to a private operator in around 1980. In fact its still running today with the same engines it ran with in the 60's plus some K36's.

Places like Marion Illinois with Crab Orchard and Egyption steam made it until 1985 or 1986, but
that was not a continual operation.

The Rio Grande operation was part of a class 1 and making freight runs with steam into 1968 was in my mind the last of the big boys with steam!

This should make for an interesting discussion which has been hammered out before!

Greg Scholl

Videos
sales@gregschollvideo.com

TWM Long's Reader RR was all steam, hauling freight until the spring of 1973. Although it was a mixed in later years, when the Waterloo oil refinery quit shipping, the RR quit running. To this day, even in its later tourist incarnation, the Reader RR has not ever operated a diesel over its rails.
And, despite the remote chance the Edgemoor and manetta ran later, the Reader was the last carded ICC, common carrier freight railroad in the US.
The Crab Orchard and Egyption didn't even begin as a tourist run till years after Reader stopped hauling tankcars.

> OK, I waas asked an interesting question I
> couldn't answer a few days ago and I hope
> the contributing geniuses to this board can
> find one.

> DPM opined in TRAINS many years ago that the
> end of revenue steam regular freight service
> in the USA wouldn't be the last 4-8-4 on a
> mainline, but the final straw that breaks
> the back of the clanking, wheezing old
> switcher or 2-8-0 at a gravel pit or coal
> mine or shortline in some podunk that can't
> afford a diesel and can't make the expensive
> repair to get the old kettle running again
> due to very marginal revenue.

> Discounting modern regenerations of steam
> freight such as Jack Anderson's of a couple
> years ago or the recent FW&W use of the
> 4=6=0 as a pusher, and photo freights on
> different lines, and movie / media work,
> where and when was the final steam revenue
> trip?

> I also want to discount
> "emergency" short lived use of
> steam to cover a dieselized lines temporary
> breakdown after official retirement of
> steam, although it might be interesting to
> know about this as well.

> I am thinking Graham County or Rockton and
> Rion - any other ideas?

> Dave

Dave,
Depends on what you call "steam power" if you include small 0-4-0st locos, then South Carolina's Edgemoor and Monetta #5 (Porter 1917(?)) whick last ran in the 1970's would be a top contender for the last non-tourist steam operation.
Don't forget Crab Orchard & Egyptian's post-tourist operations using the Roberval And Sanguay 2-8-0, or the Northwestern Seel and Wire ex-GTW 0-8-0's.

I think the last R-O-R Ry. steam operation was in the 1968 to 1970 period. One of the 2-8-2's moved the USAF "Radar Train" from it's temporary siding at the area currently known as "Summit" (about MP 2.2) to interchange w/Southern at Rockton. That was the last use of the Mikes. One of the 0-4-0T tank engines was used into the early 1970's at Anderson Quarry, but that was a captive (non-interchange) operation at that time.
Of course I haven't even touched things like the end of D.R.G.& W.'s San Juan extension operations. And the Silverton is STILL considered common-carrier.
In closing - what is your definition of "real steam??"

Kindest regards'

Mike Gellner

I thought that the Crap Orchard and Egyptian was the last "real steam" operation in the U.S. If I remember correctly, it lasted until the 1980s. Am I correct?

wilkidm@wku.edu

Hi Mike;

Unlike fishing, size doesn't count. 0-4-0's compete alongside the R&R 2=8=2's. Does anybody know the last operating day for the E&M?

Industrial steam (apart from fireless - let's stick with more traditional steam) also in the contention.

Maybe there is a coal mine in deepest Appalachia or a brickyard in darkest Alabama with something that ran later than the early 1970's?

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

> I thought that the Crap Orchard and Egyptian
> was the last "real steam"
> operation in the U.S. If I remember
> correctly, it lasted until the 1980s. Am I
> correct?

They were "retreads" rather than a continual steam operation. they thought the lower capitalization cost of steam compared to purchasing new diesels would cover operating costs. Alas, they were mistaken.

I wonder if the recent developments from Dante Porta and other engineers could have made a difference?

Dave


irondave@bellsouth.net

Wait a second! Wasn't North American Rayon Corp's fireless 0-6-0 the last real revenue steam operation in the U.S. I think it operated at their Johnson City, TN plant until the mid to late 1980s, handling interchange traffic from the ET&WNC and later the ET Railway. I just thought of it when I posted my last message.

wilkidm@wku.edu

> Wait a second! Wasn't North American Rayon
> Corp's fireless 0-6-0 the last real revenue
> steam operation in the U.S.

See http//www.et-wnc.com/cartercox.html

They claim it to be the last steam engine in regular use in the US. Do fireless cookers count?

Russell Underwood

Jay611@home.com

> See http//www.et-wnc.com/cartercox.html

> They claim it to be the last steam engine in
> regular use in the US. Do fireless cookers
> count?

> Russell Underwood

Dave,

Both Mobile & Gulf and Graham Co. quit in the summer of 1970, the M&G in Sept. and the GC in 1970.

E&M shows quitting in 1975 but was unremarked and rarely appreciated.

Reader and Crab Orchard all deserve a place in this story as does the D&S, so I guess the answer is: It depends...

jim

Wrinnbo@aol.com

The NARCO 0-6-0 acted in regular service until 1992. I saw it about a week ago, and it is looking great in its new display, at the head of a "freight" consisting of a ET&WNC narrow gauge boxcar, and eventually a Southern Railway wooden cab. I consider that the last real steam show in the U.S., even if it is a fireless cooker. Heck, it was one of the last locomotives to switch with another steam locomotive in the U.S., up until 1967. I consider that locomotive to have the honor of them all.

Spencer Shops
cookiemonster@rrmail.com

OK, with respect to NARCO will concede for us guys in the business that they were the last steam blah blah blah but for the general public, who won't necessarily understand the fireless VS fired dichotomy I will concede to E&M unless something later turns up. 1975 and I never saw it run!

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

I don't quite see what the criteria is for determining the "last" steam locomotive to operate. You are all talking about locomotives that may have operated into the 1970s but the UP 844 has operated since all the fires were put out on these other locomotives, and continues to operate.

Steam never completely died on American railroads, and it will never completely die. So this is all pointless.

Tod Engine Foundation
rick@todengine.org

Consider also Northwestern Steel & Wire's 0-8-0s and Great Western Sugar's last operating 0-4-0T, which operated at Sterling, Ill. and Fort Morgan, Colorado, respectively, into 1980. I believe the 0-4-0T was fired up as late as 1989 (don't know if it moved any cars) and last I knew it was still on the property.



bobyar2001@yahoo.com

> I don't quite see what the criteria is for
> determining the "last" steam
> locomotive to operate. You are all talking
> about locomotives that may have operated
> into the 1970s but the UP 844 has operated
> since all the fires were put out on these
> other locomotives, and continues to operate.

Your comments reminded me of a statement about the UP #844 I heard on a video tape in my collection. May, or may not be correct, but I seem to recall hearing that the UP #844 has never been retired. That would most assuredly give it the honor of being the last "in-service" steamer.
May have been on a Pentrex tape...

Russell Underwood

Jay611@home.com