I just had the opportunity to watch The Polar Express. That’s what happens when your kids are grown, you have to wait until the nephews watch it. Nice movie.

Anyway, while we all know what engine was used as the prototype for the locomotive in the film, what about the cars? They have some really strange attributes. The interior of the coach(es) with their round corner sealed windows and built in PA system remind me of subway cars. The coupling between cars, with its lack of diaphragms, also reminds me of subway cars, while the observation platform, with its semi circular railing, reminds me of an interurban. Closest museum piece I can think of is Illinois Terminal 234 at IRM, but the roof would be wrong. In reality, I think the obs. Platform in the movie reminds me most of some twenties era travel poster, perhaps of the Chicago North Shore & Milwaukee open obs car, but again, that car had an arch roof. Of course, they could have just changed the roof to support the story. Anyone know what cars they really used for the prototypes?

We finally got around to seeing it in I-Max 3D and it's well worth seeing in 3D, too say nothing about the sound.

My impression was they were using heavy weight era commuter cars, but took a lot of dramatic liberties !

Bob H

When we were working with them on the movie the type of car they wanted was just like the one in the book. We could not find a car that was intact that looked like what they wanted. We gave them a bunch of different looking cars about the era they were looking for. What they ended up using was some pictures of the cars at Coopersville and Marne we gave them. They also used some looks from some PM Lionel passenger cars we sent them.

Kevin Mayer
SRI

Aw, just go see the darned movie! That's what I did last year. Just 'cos it's Rated G doesn't mean a grownup can't go see it unaccompanied by a kid!

The one thing that annoyed me was the know-it-all kid who called the 1225 a Baldwin when she practically screams Lima superpower to anyone who knows better. It annoyed me because the 3D rendering was so painstakingly realistic and accurate, and then they screw up something as basic as the engine's builder.

Because the moviemakers used photos taken at the Coopersville and Marne, the movie cars look a lot like DL&W trailers. So those things show up even in cartoons. We sent them a Model Railroader plan for one of the PRR business cars with the fireplace in the parlor, but they didn't use that one, cute as it would have been.

Weird footnote known to but a few (who own the book Pere Marquette Passenger Cars): the round-end open-platform observation drawn into the movie originated in an animator's imagination, but at least one similar car existed. The PM had one 1905 wood open-platform cafe-observation with a round carbody end. Only one: the companion cars were conventional. Since seeing that picture, I've always wondered if that was unique, or if other roads had similar cars.

Also, the moviemakers knew who built the locomotive, but they thought "Lima" sounded funny.

I thought they did a pretty good job from a technical standpoint; certainly this as close as many people get to real live superpower steam, and it's a pretty good imitation of that. Too bad they can't add "smell-o-vision" to the experience. :-)

The one technical glitch that does really annoy me is the reverse-action throttle (the engineer pushes it forward to open it). Perhaps they'll digitially correct that goof in a later edition release of the DVD.

Aaron's right. I inquired to some friends across the street at Warner Brothers and the "goof" was a deliberate move by the filmmakers (as listed in the "goofs" section on the Polar Express page on imdb.com.) And it was good to hear PM 1225's whistle and the Back to the Future engine's whistle off and on in the film as well ;)

The line about the engine being a Baldwin not a Lima came from the nerdie boy and who ever thought anyone like that every thing anyone like that said was always correct ??? <lol> after all at the end of the film his ticket gets punched with the letters "learn" !

Also, the coffee cups in the hot cocca scene looked *very* real, albeit a bit large.

Bob H

I was the technical advisor for Warner Bros for 3 years on the production of the Polar Express railroad scenes. I'm glad to see that some of the FAQ's are coming out and answers pretty close to accurate.

I did in fact have detailed conversations with the producers on the Lima vs Baldwin issue. As Aarne stated, the producers thought that "Lima" might be associated with Lima Beans and several on the art development group suggested that the Polar Express might be referred to as the "Lima Bean" locomotive. "Kids don't like Lima Beans" Baldwin sounded more "steam locomotivish" to them. I could tell that I was not going to win that one and gave in to the idea of the "Kid's" flaw in the facts.

It was noted earlier in this thread that "Kid Know It All" wasn't always right and was indeed reminded of that point on his ticket.

I have several behind the scenes stories and had a subtile item or two incorporated in a couple scenes placed or altered just for my amusement. I worked closely with all the staffs at Warner Bros, Sony Imageworks and Skywalker Sound from the beginning to the end of the production. All were very professional and treated me like part of their crew.

Sony Imageworks's director Marty Kline had created the locomotive scenes in Back to the Future. He seemed very knowledable of steam locomotive design and operation. He did need assistance and relied on me to help in the design and operation characteristics of the much larger and complex Lima Berkshire locomotive. Note the Baker Valve Gear operation among the many details.

The throttle going the wrong way was done to give more room in the cab for the "action' scenes. The throttle in the full open position would have decreased the headroom in the cab for the large Steamer to maneuver during his action scenes. Again, it was decided early on in the development at the art department to have the throttle move in the opposite way for this reason. I personally thought there was enough room for it to operate normally but they had the measurements and I didn't. 1225's cab was actually scaled up some for more room to get point of view or camera angle (the term if cameras had actually been used)

Another tid-bit is the mechanical mechanism that allowed the drivers to turn the opposite direction from each other during the frozen lake scene. That feature was referred to during production as "Differential Drive". Seems to work well and necessary on a magical locomotive like Polar Express.

In the early production scene of the Polar Express just arriving at the North Pole, I commented that there needs to be steam coming from the center of the coaches. I sent an old silent video of PM locomotives and passenger cars in action around the Saginaw Michigan area. I added a voice narration to this which aided them by verbally pointing out further details of steam operations in the winter. The final scene arriving at the North Pole shows lots of steam coming from the coaches when they stop.
That was a direct result of one of many comments I made during the process.

The steam condensing action around the Polar Express throughout the movie was also based on this short narrated video I sent.

As far as the coach design, I supplied information and photos of a coach at Coppersville & Marne RR, detail drawings of Lackawana Suburban coaches and a couple old PM obs cars elevation drawings. It appeared to me that they used parts of all. Again, a good call by those commenting in this thread.

Many more stories I would be glad to share. Happy to answer any production questions if I can.

Dennis Braid

Dennis,

Your insights are fascinating! As a filmmaker, I'm certainly intruiged. Can you PM me or post some more tales when celluoid hits the rails (albiet, digitally ;)

I would have to say that when I first saw scenes of this movie, I was impressed that they actually had the Baker valve gear, since cartoons never seem to get what valve gear is anyways.
I was trying to imagine what the scene on the ice would be like if the polar express engine had a precision reverser as opposed to the power reverse. That would have looked odd and kids would probably think they were steering.
This year while running steam at Greenfield Village I noticed that a great deal of parents were saying to their kids "Hey look, it's like the Polar Express". Well, a small Mason is not a berk, but kids are gaining a broader appreciation for steam because of Hollywood, and it's replacing the "Hey, say Hi to Thomas!" (except when the "Isle of Strasburg" Thomas is around). I'm hoping this will open more kids to the idea of steam preservation.

by the way, I loved lima beans when I was a kid and I still do!