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How are CNR 6167 and 6218?
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19461		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  How are CNR 6167 and 6218?
CNR 6167 and 6218 remained in fan trip service for an extended period after the end of Canadian steam. Both locomotives were retired and presented as "stuff and mounts" to preservation sites. What are their conditon today, and is any attempt being made to revive either locomotive? There remain several examples of this class of 4-8-4 around the CN system, including 6200 and 6153. With CPR running their Hudson, it might be incumbant upon CNR to once again heat a boiler. 6060 was such a success during the 70's, and continues to be one today.
Author:  Ken Jones [ Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How are CNR 6167 and 6218?
6167 has a new committe up in guelph, that will be looking after her, and i believe they have a website out there somewhere. You can try the Guelp Railway Historical Society i think. As for 6218, well, she's in very poor shape. Having been placedon display in semi operable condition, time has taken it's toll on the famous fan trip engine. Years of outdoor storage, no funds for protection, etc. has allowed the engine to slowly rust away. There are HUGE rust holes on the side of the firebox, the grates are rusted out soo bad most of them don't move, and the list goes on from there. Even a roof would have been helpful, but it's not likely. When the asbestos was removed years ago, they didn't complete the job, and many of the boiler parts were not properly secured. (steam dome, sand dome) Back at thier 20th anniversary i spent a few days up there helping to clean things up, and took a few hrs to wash the engine top to bottom. It was then that i realised the dome was NOT secured, when i went to grab on to it. It is a shame. If you're going to save something so valuable (although value is different to everyone) at least try to have the forsight to put at the very least a roof over it. Canadian winters, and the lake affect snow that hits Fort Erie is slowly destroying the engine. In time, there will be only wheels left. Other groups have taken the time to protect the equipment. I remember when i was still involved with the Elgin County Railway Museum in St. Thomas, that 5700 (5703) even though she was indoors, was still tarped over the winter to protect her from snow/ice/water, etc. The building afterall was not climate controlled,and water still got in. Another reason why the engine still looks as good today as it did whenit was in Ottawa. ANywho, that's just my 2 cents on 6167 & 6218. Of course, the best place for 6218 rightnow would be to redevelope the former CNR Fort Erie Diesel shop, and put her in there. But again, just an opinion.

Ken Jones Jr.
Niagara Falls Railway Museum
http://www.nfrm.ca
Author:  ctjacks [ Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How are CNR 6167 and 6218?
From what I understand, 6218 needed mechanical work, especially bearing work, when it was retired. As far as I know there have been no serious efforts to restore either to operation over the years, and even if there was, CN hasn't shown any interest in such a project in recent history.

There was a group in Toronto about five years ago that wanted to turn the John St. roundhouse into a museum and restore 6213 to operation as part of this musem. As far as I know 6213 is by far the best-preserved of the big non-operating CN engines that are displayed outside and gets regular care with oiling, etc.

While CN hasn't shown interest in a steam excurison program, some groups (notably the one in Kamloops) have succeeded in getting CN to allow short trips on the property.

Running a steam excursion program in Canada would be difficult: there aren't the big NRHS Chapters up there to run trips as there are in Chicago, Detroit, etc., and equipment availability would be a big problem - unless equipment was brought across the border from the U.S., which has its own issues with cost, duties, and Transport Canada regulations.

If you wanted to restore just one big CN steam engine, I assume most peoples' choice would be the 6400 in Ottawa, right?

Chris Jacks.
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How are CNR 6167 and 6218?
My first choice, if not one of these U's would be a green and gold Hudson.
Author:  bobyar2001 [ Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Photos of Ft. Erie Diesel Shop?
Anyone have old and recent photos of this facility? What is its status? Would be a shame to have it torn down when a nearby locomotive was in need of shelter it might provide. Is it a former steam shop, or newer?
Author:  Finderskeepers [ Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Photos of Ft. Erie Diesel Shop?
Speaking of CN 4-6-4 5703, last I heard the ex Michigan Central backshop where she is currently house was condemned due to fears the roof was in danger of collapsing, anyone got any further news?
Author:  pm-man [ Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How are CNR 6167 and 6218?
Nah, I vote for a proven engine, one that certain guys at CN already know, and that wouldn't have an ugly break-in period that could permanently screw any steam operation on CN.

Yup, #6060. Ready to go, still used regularly, and a proven winner. If you want to get fancy, grab either of her sisters: #6069 here in Sarnia; or #6077 in Capreol; for backup, which would give you two available operating engines of the same class, virtually interchangeable.

Heck, why re-invent the wheel when your trying to prove viability --- go with the known, THEN experiment once you've established yourself.

Just a thought.

Image

Image
Author:  Ken Jones [ Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Photos of Ft. Erie Diesel Shop?
The Fort Erie Diesel Shop dates from the steam to diesel transition period on CN. It is a newer facility, and has the capacity of i believe 6 locomotives. There are inspection platforms for probably 4 engines, complete with inspection pits, as well as a single truck drop table for removing the trucks. It also has a separate bay with an overhead crane, which i think is either 150 or 200 ton, but i can't quite recall. The building and property are now in private hands, and the owner, while he has no plans to demolish the building, isnot sure what to do with it. The roundhouse was burned, and sebsequently torn down many years ago, with the turntable first going to the Arcade & Attica, and now i think it's in New England. The former yard office still stands, although unused, and the car shops were last used by a lumber transloader. THere is currently no track leading to the diesel shop, although the sand/fuel towers still stand outside. There's also no hydro there connected. I'll try to dig up some pics i took last year, and send them over.
As for 6218, she'll never run again. For the Elgin County Museum, i believe one of thier members watches/posts to this list, and if he sees this, can comment further on that.

Ken
Author:  k5ahudson [ Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Photos of Ft. Erie Diesel Shop?
Finderskeepers wrote:
Speaking of CN 4-6-4 5703, last I heard the ex Michigan Central backshop where she is currently house was condemned due to fears the roof was in danger of collapsing, anyone got any further news?
Author:  k5ahudson [ Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How are CNR 6167 and 6218?
pm-man wrote:
If you want to get fancy, grab either of her sisters: #6069 here in Sarnia; or #6077 in Capreol; for backup,


Have you seen 6069 lately? I saw it just yesterday. What a mess!!! I assume 6077 is the same since it has been outside for years. As Ken said, 5700 (aka 5703) has been inside for years and it is on live rail.
Author:  pm-man [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How are CNR 6167 and 6218?
I guess you missed the new paint job, closed-up cab, and lighted headlights. She also is lit at night and has fence around her, which is more than I can say for 90% of the park locos in the U.S. Would I like to see a roof over her, and some sheet metal work? You bet --- but I've sure seen a heck of a lot worse.

And again, #6060 is already operable. Between the #6077 and #6069, you could get one decent back up. Unless your not willing to look at anything BUT #5700, that is.

And I live right across the way in Port Huron, by the way, and saw her two days before you. So unless the quickest deterioration in christdom just happened, I'm pretty sure she's not a lost cause.

TJG
Author:  Project-6069 [ Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  #6069
Her last paint job held up pretty good but she is in need of some repair and repainting once again. She recently had a second round of asbestos encapsulated and yesterday I noticed another area of concern on the old girl.
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